Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:15 am  

nathan_rugby wrote:

What does "getting Bateman more involved" entail?

Bateman is best hitting lines outwide at second row where defect is more scattered / less set. If we cannot get him involved, or is it him not wanting to get involved? at second row then there is an issue. Moving him to 13 will mean more tackling, running at a more set defence. You may be referring to involved with some passes at 13? This isn't what he is good at and we should avoid.

Bateman to 13 is round peg square hole. He is an out and out second rower, played all of his best rugby there so lets keep him there?

Fair enough, but I disagree.

I might be wrong, but I'm sure he played the majority of his jnr rugby at 13. He came to Wigan and transitioned into the 2nd row as we had SOL.

I want to see him roaming more and trying things. We saw a couple of instances last week Vs KR of him coming into the middle, looking for work and making things happen. He's not a ball player like SOL was, but he's still a special talent.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:25 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Fair enough, but I disagree.

I might be wrong, but I'm sure he played the majority of his jnr rugby at 13. He came to Wigan and transitioned into the 2nd row as we had SOL.

I want to see him roaming more and trying things. We saw a couple of instances last week Vs KR of him coming into the middle, looking for work and making things happen. He's not a ball player like SOL was, but he's still a special talent.

How many years ago was that?

Sam Powell played scrum half right up until he was 18 and Wigan signed him.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:32 am  

nathan_rugby wrote:

Of course you can adapt but for some players it will never be the same as the dominant side and when fine margins come into it, that can and will be the difference.

Do you never wonder why Liam Farrell is so effective on one side? Should he pack up and go home?

So we've gone from "Huge difference" (your words, not mine), to being able to adapt and maybe a difference when it comes down to fine margins, which I would agree with. Like I said, most people are right handed and right footed anyway, so I'd wager the majority of wingers prefer the same side anyway given the choice, and I've already demonstrated that more or less every winger we have had has played and scored on both sides anyway. It's just not worth worrying about which side they prefer. Sign the best available winger within the budget.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:44 pm  

Bateman looks an average second rower at the moment

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:50 pm  

Poky wrote:

Bateman looks an average second rower at the moment

He looks like he needs a rest and I think he will probably get one after tonight’s injury.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:55 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

So we've gone from "Huge difference" (your words, not mine), to being able to adapt and maybe a difference when it comes down to fine margins, which I would agree with. Like I said, most people are right handed and right footed anyway, so I'd wager the majority of wingers prefer the same side anyway given the choice, and I've already demonstrated that more or less every winger we have had has played and scored on both sides anyway. It's just not worth worrying about which side they prefer. Sign the best available winger within the budget.

Tommy Makinson tonight was a good example.

Struggled on the opposite side to his normal side.

It’s the finer points of the game that cause problems shifting sides especially when you are conditioned to do one thing one way.

Hip position in both attack and defence is a massive change ball carry, step etc also big contributors.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:18 pm  

jonh wrote:

Tommy Makinson tonight was a good example.

Struggled on the opposite side to his normal side.

It’s the finer points of the game that cause problems shifting sides especially when you are conditioned to do one thing one way.

Hip position in both attack and defence is a massive change ball carry, step etc also big contributors.

Why would you say he was picked then? Have you ever seen a coach not pick his best two available wingers regardless of side preference? At every level of the game, every coach picks best winger and second best winger, not best left winger and best right winger.

I'm not saying there is no difference. I'm saying it's not that big, and that most of them probably prefer the same side anyway so it's just something you have to live with. That would appear to be backed up by every coach just picking his best two available wingers every time then deciding which side to play them (presumably often involving one playing on the side he doesn't prefer).

Suddenly because we want a stick to beat the club with, it becomes an unassailable obstacle for Miski to do what most other Wigan wingers have done. We don't even really know for sure which side he prefers anyway. Maybe London have two right wingers so he plays on the left? Maybe Marshall and Manfredi both prefer the right so Marshall plays on the left? Easier to just assume the club have made a calamitous decision and anyone who disagrees knows nothing about the game.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:48 pm  

Poky wrote:

Bateman looks an average second rower at the moment

How did the Saints contingent go for the All Stars tonight LeBron? Or Lomax and Walmsley for England?

Presume the only team in the league without a fixture and who are also Covid free really backed the game tonight?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:09 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Why would you say he was picked then? Have you ever seen a coach not pick his best two available wingers regardless of side preference? At every level of the game, every coach picks best winger and second best winger, not best left winger and best right winger.

I'm not saying there is no difference. I'm saying it's not that big, and that most of them probably prefer the same side anyway so it's just something you have to live with. That would appear to be backed up by every coach just picking his best two available wingers every time then deciding which side to play them (presumably often involving one playing on the side he doesn't prefer).

Suddenly because we want a stick to beat the club with, it becomes an unassailable obstacle for Miski to do what most other Wigan wingers have done. We don't even really know for sure which side he prefers anyway. Maybe London have two right wingers so he plays on the left? Maybe Marshall and Manfredi both prefer the right so Marshall plays on the left? Easier to just assume the club have made a calamitous decision and anyone who disagrees knows nothing about the game.

I genuinely wasn’t aware this was a Wigan related issue.

Regardless though if you are a left orientated side player you play better on the left because you are conditioned to do the above points I made, on the left and vice versa for right sided players.

It’s more obvious on the wing but it’s the same for all right side and left side players.

To dismiss it as not significant is totally incorrect.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:12 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

How did the Saints contingent go for the All Stars tonight LeBron? Or Lomax and Walmsley for England?

Presume the only team in the league without a fixture and who are also Covid free really backed the game tonight?

Morgan Knowles probably best player on the pitch but I get the point.

Bateman also looks way off the pace so I get the original point also.