Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 10:27 am  

No matter how much you spin it when you're having a good Cup run, however you cut it when you're trying to defend old traditions ... the Challenge Cup is nothing like the force it once used to be.

There's no doubt that it's a great trophy to win, and you can't beat the atmosphere at Wembley itself, yet for some reason or other the Challenge Cup tournament is now regarded by most as the secondary event of the season.

It's not easy for a Wigan fan to admit this as Wigan were the original 'Cup Kings' - Wembley was our second home, and we basked in so much Twin Towers glory that it was almost impossible to imagine a world without it. Yet now, within in a relatively short period of time, people just don't seem to get excited any more.

I remember awaiting each new Cup draw with baited breath. I remember seeing massive crowds at Central Park when the atmosphere of 'knock-out' day was almost intoxicating. I don't feel any of that now. I actually forgot that the next round draw was being made this weekend.

Is it the much mentioned 'season ticket factor'? Is it the lack of interest that Sky have in this 'BBC competition'? Is it the BBC themselves - did they suddenly decide that 'the people's final' was an anachronism? Was it that dratted period when the Cup was a pre-season event and the final moved from pillar to post? Or could it simply be that, fond though we are of old institutions, in our heart of hearts we recognise that there is a huge amount of luck involved in getting to Wembley and that to win the Cup is no longer the true measure of a team's worth?

I wish someone could tell me, because I really feel that this magical event has been badly downgraded and that the British game as a whole is worse off for it.

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 10:34 am  

There is also the addition of the Magic event, which has also detracted from the appeal of the Challenge Cup IMO.

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 10:39 am  

Cruncher wrote:

No matter how much you spin it when you're having a good Cup run, however you cut it when you're trying to defend old traditions ... the Challenge Cup is nothing like the force it once used to be.

There's no doubt that it's a great trophy to win, and you can't beat the atmosphere at Wembley itself, yet for some reason or other the Challenge Cup tournament is now regarded by most as the secondary event of the season.

It's not easy for a Wigan fan to admit this as Wigan were the original 'Cup Kings' - Wembley was our second home, and we basked in so much Twin Towers glory that it was almost impossible to imagine a world without it. Yet now, within in a relatively short period of time, people just don't seem to get excited any more.

I remember awaiting each new Cup draw with baited breath. I remember seeing massive crowds at Central Park when the atmosphere of 'knock-out' day was almost intoxicating. I don't feel any of that now. I actually forgot that the next round draw was being made this weekend.

Is it the much mentioned 'season ticket factor'? Is it the lack of interest that Sky have in this 'BBC competition'? Is it the BBC themselves - did they suddenly decide that 'the people's final' was an anachronism? Was it that dratted period when the Cup was a pre-season event and the final moved from pillar to post? Or could it simply be that, fond though we are of old institutions, in our heart of hearts we recognise that there is a huge amount of luck involved in getting to Wembley and that to win the Cup is no longer the true measure of a team's worth?

I wish someone could tell me, because I really feel that this magical event has been badly downgraded and that the British game as a whole is worse off for it.

I think moving it away from April was a bad idea. It meant you could have big games early in the season instead of cramming the CC final, SL final and internationals all at the end of the year. Teams also used to actually focus on the cup early in the season, you could see a noticeable improvement in standard, now teams can't afford to put extra effort into the cup because we're so far into the SL season. Also cash flow is bound to become an issue for some fans if their team makes both finals, which are fairly close timewise. I still enjoy the cup though, but I used to enjoy it a lot more before they moved it.

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:10 am  

This past round is a non event.
Drawing clubs who are full time against part time players doesn't work. OK Barrow beat Cas last year but they were never going to beat Wigan.
The "romance" came from the fact that all clubs were part time and on a given day with winter weather conditions an upset could and often did occur. It is now a summer game and pitches are like bowling greens. Part time players simply cannot match full timers.

The CCup will I think end up with the Champ clubs playing each other until they get a final two. They will then join the fourteen SL clubs at the last sixteen stage.
Whether then it is a straight knock out over four rounds or a different method of which there are good systems around I don't know. I just can't see the present structure continuing when we get the new TV deal.

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:22 am  

The playoffs have killed off the cup - we now have two knockout competitions - the league (in which anyone in the top 8 can win it) and the cup. Unfortunately teams who are having a poor league campaign, such as us in recent years, know they still have a chance to win the big prize, giving less importance to the cup!

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:28 am  

i don't think it has lost any romance at all and certanly for the lower league sides they certainly take it seriously and it is a great opportunity no matter who they draw to get a result and let the fairtale continue.

the two televised games over the weekend were both crackers, ok three of the sides we current SL teams but neither went exactly by the form book, fax certainly made a good account of themselves whether they were playing a poor SL side or not.

MM is certainly treating it as importantly as the SL as you can see from the team sheets. maybe some feel it has lost its appeal because wigan haven't been heavily enough involved in the finals over the last few years?

maybe if you asked the same question to lower league sides or those not with much chance of obtaining a title in their respective league you'd get a different opion to that of the thread opener...

for me, its a important as it has always been and moving the fixtures around etc has made no difference to me. if anything it has helped alligned the game just as the likes of football etc have mor eor less always done, by having the finals bunching together towards the end of the season which for me, works.

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:29 am  

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the GF concept [edit - Broxy Music just has] and Old Trafford - the build up in terms of the play-offs adds a great deal of interest and excitement and while the "Theatre of Dreams" will never equal Wembley, it is a superb venue, famous around the world.

I think this means that the CC is always going to be not only a secondary competition (which it always was IMO, winning the league was bigger in the pre-SL era, but that's just my view) but a secondary event.

Having all that, there are things that can be done on the marketing and profile of the CC to improve attendances and increase sponsor appetite etc, but a key issue is the BBC's lack of interest in the CC. We need the BBC to get behind the CC properly, rather than looking like they think they are doing a bunch of northern oiks a favour by showing their strange little sport on TV....

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:30 am  

If we get past Bradford Wigan have 9 league matches to play before the next cup round. It's a joke that!

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:35 am  

would still mean the world for me to win it - scheduling is silly though the games seem very spread out and loose their meaning a little

Re: Why has the Cup lost its romance? : Mon May 09, 2011 11:39 am  

Bilko wrote:

If we get past Bradford Wigan have 9 league matches to play before the next cup round. It's a joke that!

although i have backed the romance and importance of the CC in my previous post, i do see what you mean here and never thought of it that respect.