: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:13 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Am I missing something?
Is there a Rule that states You Can't play 9 Foreign Players ??????

How come this didn't seem to bother you when other clubs had has many if not more foreign players in their team?

Are you getting on your Moralistic High Horse as you want to see the standard of English Rugby improve? If so, thanks for that but I have another suggestion, stop picking the likes of Wilking/Gardner/Maureen etc for GB that may Help!

Please tell me how many of their own Local Backs Saints have brought through into their starting 1-7 in the last 5 years????

I'll tell you what!

Ask Wellens/Gidley/Long/Cayless/Graham Maybe Roby to sit out 1/2 or 3/4 of a season like some clubs have had to do in previous seasons ie Hull?Warrington/Ourselves etc and throw in 5/6 of tese youngsters for the next 15/20 weeks and lets see how Good they are playing with Gardner/Gilmour/Flannery/Wilkin & Hargreaves Class week in week out!

The truth is, Saints & Leeds have been able to promote some Youth into their set ups over the last couple of years because their clubs have had the stability and the success to enable them to do so.

If your concern is about bringing through players to play for GB then :-
When Wigan were making GF Appearances & CC Final Appearances regularly 88-95 - 98-2004 we brought Many,Many more through that were eligible for GB & England and many went on to have Good SL & International careers for England/GB.
In Your 10 Year period of dominance How many players Have Saints provided for GB That YOU Produced? I Can think of about 4 or 5 maybe???

If your concern is more about how many foreign players Wigan are playing each week then :-
Considering the Turmoil the club went through Late 2004/05/06 I don't think weve recovered too badly thank you.
What is it of any concern to you ?

I have said it before I will say it again, The Saints fans are becoming the total embodiment of everything they say they used to hate about Wiganers!
Know it all pompus kn0bs!

You don't know any better than us, you don't know more about rugby than us, You don't have better Morals regarding the future of British RL more than us.

Your team is Just winning more than us at the moment!

At some point this will change, Will you be right about everything then?

No-one kicks ass quite like you!!

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:16 pm  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

indeed - Saints have taken a conscious decision to operate below the salary cap and promote the young players through the squad. We have space on the cap to spend - but have chosen not to.

this is what leeds do every year! leave room incase we need to bring anyone in due to injuries or if some becomes avalable who fits the bill

so good on saints. but it does seem like they are in a position where if they have a few injuries the kids are in apossed to the kids been blooded and brought on a little at a time. but in at the deep end in a team like saints could see some young kids fast tracked into top players.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:25 pm  

Ive had another Idea!

Why don't we cut away from all this crap about Kolpac/Federation/Club trained B0ll0x and just say You can only have 3 Non GB Eligible players in your squad from next season and You must have say 10 Players from Your own Academy in your 1st team 25 squad.

I'm up for that, anyone else?

Given 2 x years we'll be at the Top of the Pile (With leeds) again and then all the rest can go and think of ways to drag us back again like they had to 14 years ago!

And remember, we were a million miles better & closer to the Aussies than we are now!

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:26 pm  

sgtwilko wrote:

this is what leeds do every year! leave room incase we need to bring anyone in due to injuries or if some becomes avalable who fits the bill

so good on saints. but it does seem like they are in a position where if they have a few injuries the kids are in apossed to the kids been blooded and brought on a little at a time. but in at the deep end in a team like saints could see some young kids fast tracked into top players.

And Wigan have done the same last couple of years. His point is?

They have taken a concious decision! How does he know that? Maybe their cost cutting? I remember Wigan doing a similar thing a few years back!

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:27 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Ive had another Idea!

Why don't we cut away from all this crap about Kolpac/Federation/Club trained B0ll0x and just say You can only have 3 Non GB Eligible players in your squad from next season and You must have say 10 Players from Your own Academy in your 1st team 25 squad.

I'm up for that, anyone else?

Given 2 x years we'll be at the Top of the Pile (With leeds) again and then all the rest can go and think of ways to drag us back again like they had to 14 years ago!

And remember, we were a million miles better & closer to the Aussies than we are now!

Certainly am.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:31 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Ive had another Idea!

Why don't we cut away from all this crap about Kolpac/Federation/Club trained B0ll0x and just say You can only have 3 Non GB Eligible players in your squad from next season and You must have say 10 Players from Your own Academy in your 1st team 25 squad.

I'm up for that, anyone else?

Given 2 x years we'll be at the Top of the Pile (With leeds) again and then all the rest can go and think of ways to drag us back again like they had to 14 years ago!

And remember, we were a million miles better & closer to the Aussies than we are now!

Count me in

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:47 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Ive had another Idea!

Why don't we cut away from all this crap about Kolpac/Federation/Club trained B0ll0x and just say You can only have 3 Non GB Eligible players in your squad from next season and You must have say 10 Players from Your own Academy in your 1st team 25 squad.

I'm up for that, anyone else?

Given 2 x years we'll be at the Top of the Pile (With leeds) again and then all the rest can go and think of ways to drag us back again like they had to 14 years ago!

And remember, we were a million miles better & closer to the Aussies than we are now!

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Saints already have 18 players from the academy in the (30man) first team squad, and only 5 non-GB eligible players - so we release Flannery and Cayless and we are there already.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:52 pm  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

Sounds like a good idea to me.

Saints already have 18 players from the academy in the (30man) first team squad, and only 5 non-GB eligible players - so we release Flannery and Cayless and we are there already.

No Probs!

I take it you won't be going overseas then in the next 2/3 years to replace Cayless/KFC/LONG/Wellens/Gidley/Gilmour etc when they need replacing in the next couple of years then will you?

We will soon see How good you are then!

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:55 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

And Wigan have done the same last couple of years. His point is?

They have taken a concious decision! How does he know that? Maybe their cost cutting? I remember Wigan doing a similar thing a few years back!

not sure what you are on about mate? i thought i had made myself perfectly clear or are you on about someone else?to be honest i dont get your point. hows the best backline in the league going for ya?

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:10 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Am I missing something?
Is there a Rule that states You Can't play 9 Foreign Players ??????

i thought there was, but clearly not.

Jukesays wrote:

How come this didn't seem to bother you when other clubs had has many if not more foreign players in their team?

it did, and it does - not just with Wigan

Jukesays wrote:

Are you getting on your Moralistic High Horse as you want to see the standard of English Rugby improve? If so, thanks for that but I have another suggestion, stop picking the likes of Wilking/Gardner/Maureen etc for GB that may Help!

I do want the GB/England team to improve, I was in Australia in November embarrased by what was on display. Wilkin and Gardner contribute a lot more to the England team than any foreign player does.

Jukesays wrote:

Please tell me how many of their own Local Backs Saints have brought through into their starting 1-7 in the last 5 years????

bit of a tenuos question. do you want names of every back that has come through to play first team?

there will be at least one playing in the first team tonight, how many did Wigan have last week?


I'll tell you what!

Jukesays wrote:

Ask Wellens/Gidley/Long/Cayless/Graham Maybe Roby to sit out 1/2 or 3/4 of a season like some clubs have had to do in previous seasons ie Hull?Warrington/Ourselves etc and throw in 5/6 of tese youngsters for the next 15/20 weeks and lets see how Good they are playing with Gardner/Gilmour/Flannery/Wilkin & Hargreaves Class week in week out!

last season we went through a large proportion of the early season half our pack missing. Fozzard, Cayless and Fa'asavalu all spent a long time sat on the sidelines, along with Sculthorpe and Bennett.

Jukesays wrote:

The truth is, Saints & Leeds have been able to promote some Youth into their set ups over the last couple of years because their clubs have had the stability and the success to enable them to do so.

stability brought about by what? long term thinking and investing in academy systems for one.

Jukesays wrote:

If your concern is about bringing through players to play for GB then :-
When Wigan were making GF Appearances & CC Final Appearances regularly 88-95 - 98-2004 we brought Many,Many more through that were eligible for GB & England and many went on to have Good SL & International careers for England/GB.

I asked the question earlier in the thread and never got an answer: of the Wigan team that won the WCC in 1994 in Brisbane, how many of that team came through the Wigan youth system, how many were bought in and how many overseas players were there?

Jukesays wrote:

In Your 10 Year period of dominance How many players Have Saints provided for GB That YOU Produced? I Can think of about 4 or 5 maybe???

In the "great" Wigan team of the 8 year domination, off the top of my head, most of the notable players were all bought in: Connolly, Platt, Hanley, Offiah, Botica, Gregory, Lydon, Robinson, Tuigamala, Gene, Bell, Paul, the Iro's.

Clarke, Betts, Farrell, Edwards, Radlinski (towards the end) came through the youth systems....and no doubt you will be able to name more - but hardly a great endorsement of such domination.

Jukesays wrote:

If your concern is more about how many foreign players Wigan are playing each week then :-
Considering the Turmoil the club went through Late 2004/05/06 I don't think weve recovered too badly thank you.

I agree - from where you were, to turn it round in 3 years is a pretty good achievement, but you have to admit that it has been built on signing players (mainly foreign) rather than playing English youth.

Jukesays wrote:

What is it of any concern to you ?

its not massively, apart from the overall wellbeing of English RL - however, this is supposed to be a discussion forum where people with different points of view come together to discuss things - not everyone will agree with you.

Jukesays wrote:

I have said it before I will say it again, The Saints fans are becoming the total embodiment of everything they say they used to hate about Wiganers!
Know it all pompus kn0bs!

maybe so.

Jukesays wrote:

You don't know any better than us, you don't know more about rugby than us, You don't have better Morals regarding the future of British RL more than us.

again, all just differing opinions.

Jukesays wrote:

Your team is Just winning more than us at the moment!

At some point this will change, Will you be right about everything then?

i will always be right