Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:23 am  

jonh wrote:

The poster said special centres not specialist centres.

Yes Newman is a centre but going off the last couple of seasons he’s not a patch on Wardle all though to be fair he does go well for England.

yep, i did see that

i dont know / see enough of Newman to say he's special, but he's certainly capable of special things from what i have seen of him, whether he can do that week in / week out, its only likely be Leeds fans who could comment further

At Wigan we are privileged to see what Wardle does every week, and i'm not saying Newman is a better player, but he's certainly got the talent to be at that level IMO, but can he do it regularly?

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:50 am  

I thought we saw good and bad from Newman in the series. He's a competitor and with the ball, he is a threat but he was a worry defensively. I do rate him but would see him as very much third choice if Wardle was available. Farnworth is just incredible and a clear first choice and Wardle is comfortably the best British centre in Superleague. I think we'll need Farnworth and Wardle available to give us a shot against the Aussies next year.

[Bullseye]

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:02 am  

Newman is still raw but has plenty of potential. Needs to wise up defensively and also be more direct with his running - that crossfield stuff might work in some SL games but will be punished by the Aussies.

As with any international selection for as long as I can remember when it comes to taking on the Aussies we need all our 1st choice players fit as there is hardly any depth.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:51 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Newman is still raw but has plenty of potential. Needs to wise up defensively and also be more direct with his running - that crossfield stuff might work in some SL games but will be punished by the Aussies.

As with any international selection for as long as I can remember when it comes to taking on the Aussies we need all our 1st choice players fit as there is hardly any depth.

Wing and Loose Forward are the only two positions we could afford absences in pretty much (although there is a fair gap between Radley and the rest). Maybe hooker because we have 3 or 4 options that are much of a muchness but I do think O'Neill would be extremely useful if he can come back ok from his injury.

The Aussies are interesting. There will always be huge depth not it's maybe not as high class as once was because in the past guys like Nanai, Haas, Kikau etc would've put their hands up to play for them but now they're moving towards the countries of their heritage.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 11:33 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Wing and Loose Forward are the only two positions we could afford absences in pretty much (although there is a fair gap between Radley and the rest). Maybe hooker because we have 3 or 4 options that are much of a muchness but I do think O'Neill would be extremely useful if he can come back ok from his injury.

The Aussies are interesting. There will always be huge depth not it's maybe not as high class as once was because in the past guys like Nanai, Haas, Kikau etc would've put their hands up to play for them but now they're moving towards the countries of their heritage.

I don't think we're a million miles away from our strongest England team already but I would certainly have room for O'Neill in there assuming he can get back to something like his best. Wardle too

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 11:41 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Wing and Loose Forward are the only two positions we could afford absences in pretty much (although there is a fair gap between Radley and the rest). Maybe hooker because we have 3 or 4 options that are much of a muchness but I do think O'Neill would be extremely useful if he can come back ok from his injury.

The Aussies are interesting. There will always be huge depth not it's maybe not as high class as once was because in the past guys like Nanai, Haas, Kikau etc would've put their hands up to play for them but now they're moving towards the countries of their heritage.

i think Dodd and Nicholson going over to Oz may add a little to our strength if they go well.

I'd say at this point Smith and Williams are the preferred hb combination, but to have Lewis and Dodd (if he goes well) could well be interesting, and give him a bit more of a headache. Will also be interesting to see if Welsby is moved into the halves at Saints this year, as that would add more competition but equally leave us light at full back, as he's not really got any competition there internationally at the minute

Wings, we can also add Handley into the mix, so we are definitely well stocked with good competition there

so in the backs at this moment in time, i think our potential weakness would be FB if Welsby is moved into the halves, as we have no real english depth there at the minute

Packwise, i've no real issues as we have some good solid props with Thompson, Havard and Lees all capable of doing big minutes, plus some good backup. Hooker we've got some good options, with differing skillset from o'Neill on the defensive, to Clarke / Walker who are a bit more dynamic scooting. 2nd row we are well stocked, and if Nicholson goes well, will add another into the mix. Loose with Radley, Knowles, Minchella, we are again well stocked with quality players.

i know to beat the Ozzies we need our strongest side to start and perform, but there is good solid starting side there, and hopefully with some further development (Dodd, Nicholson, Junior) over the next 12 months we can have a squad capable of beating the Ozzies in a test series

Welsby

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:12 pm  

SFW wrote:

I don't think we're a million miles away from our strongest England team already but I would certainly have room for O'Neill in there assuming he can get back to something like his best. Wardle too

Yeah, it's there or thereabouts in this series and you'd be surprised if anyone really jumped out and barged their way in for the Ashes bar Wardle and O'Neill. I think those two are in our best 17 and the only area you think might not be totally nailed down is prop. I'd like to see Oledzki really step it up next season and kick on. He was good in 2024 but he needs to do better and he should be getting in a 24 man squad with his talent. I guess his international career may be unofficially over but a swansong for Walmsley maybe 'if' he got back to his best. In fairness I was pretty happy with our props in this series. Guys like Havard and Lees are victims of the lack of opportunities at this level to show how good they can be and they more then held their own and Thompson clearly is top class.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:17 pm  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

i think Dodd and Nicholson going over to Oz may add a little to our strength if they go well.

I'd say at this point Smith and Williams are the preferred hb combination, but to have Lewis and Dodd (if he goes well) could well be interesting, and give him a bit more of a headache. Will also be interesting to see if Welsby is moved into the halves at Saints this year, as that would add more competition but equally leave us light at full back, as he's not really got any competition there internationally at the minute

Wings, we can also add Handley into the mix, so we are definitely well stocked with good competition there

so in the backs at this moment in time, i think our potential weakness would be FB if Welsby is moved into the halves, as we have no real english depth there at the minute

Packwise, i've no real issues as we have some good solid props with Thompson, Havard and Lees all capable of doing big minutes, plus some good backup. Hooker we've got some good options, with differing skillset from o'Neill on the defensive, to Clarke / Walker who are a bit more dynamic scooting. 2nd row we are well stocked, and if Nicholson goes well, will add another into the mix. Loose with Radley, Knowles, Minchella, we are again well stocked with quality players.

i know to beat the Ozzies we need our strongest side to start and perform, but there is good solid starting side there, and hopefully with some further development (Dodd, Nicholson, Junior) over the next 12 months we can have a squad capable of beating the Ozzies in a test series

Welsby

I thought Welsby took a bit of unwarranted stick after Saturday. Plenty of Leeds fans around us where giving it to him but me and my mate were discussing how slick he is with the ball and how much he tested the Samoans with his distribution. I don't think he's had his best season but he's obviously a class act and he'll be big for us in the Ashes. I think that sort of environment will be right up his street. If anything did happen to him, I think we'd move Farnworth in to fullback. I believe that is where he'd like to play in the NRL but the opportunity hasn't come up yet. He could be an absolute sensation playing at fullback going off this series. He's a centre but is constantly coming in field and getting on the call and looks a threat every time he gets it.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:36 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I thought Welsby took a bit of unwarranted stick after Saturday. Plenty of Leeds fans around us where giving it to him but me and my mate were discussing how slick he is with the ball and how much he tested the Samoans with his distribution. I don't think he's had his best season but he's obviously a class act and he'll be big for us in the Ashes. I think that sort of environment will be right up his street. If anything did happen to him, I think we'd move Farnworth in to fullback. I believe that is where he'd like to play in the NRL but the opportunity hasn't come up yet. He could be an absolute sensation playing at fullback going off this series. He's a centre but is constantly coming in field and getting on the call and looks a threat every time he gets it.

i think Welsby has been very efficient (trying to think of the correct term) during this series. He's not been outstanding, but he has contributed quite a bit more than others will probably give him credit for, as i think his timing joining the line has been excellent

i think there are sometimes differing views on the other side of the Pennines . I was on facebook and commented on someone from KR complaining the Wane didnt like yorkshiremen, so i asked who he had not picked that warranted being in the squad - Petr Hiku was the response . i was actually waiting on them saying Minchella, who i agree has had a great season, but he aint going to displace Radley, and with Knowles and Smithies in the squad, it would have been a wasted spot. Similarly with Smith at Leeds, but that again shows some of the depth we have. Just named 5 loose forwards who could play at international level, but we can only go with the best and at the minute that is Radley by some distance

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 1:43 pm  

Welsby has certainly taken some stick on social media after the game. He was definitely at fault for the one that he tried to kick dead and missed although in mitigation the ball did bounce funny.

His class in attack has never been in doubt, its defensively that I still feel he needs to work on which is really frustrating as a Saints fan, that his coach at club level is arguably one of the best defensive FB's ever to play the game. He doesn't seem to have made any real big improvements in his positioning and he can still be worrying under a high ball.

I think he's come into this series low on confidence after a stop start poor season. However NK is spot on- the Aussies will bring out the best in him as he's a real competitor

From an England point of view we are building nicely and I think we'll give the Aussies a real test if indeed it is confirmed that they are coming here next year.

I also think its good to build those club combinations at international level. If Ashton and Young are fit then Marshall probably misses out but Smith, Nsemba and Wardle could be that left side in attack.