: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:34 pm  

Red Hot Jalapeno wrote:

Dont bother mate, these guys are too proud to admit being wrong despite Noble tonight basically sticking 2 fingers up at them. Fair play to Jonh he has sort of and i mean sort of admitted he was wrong by giving Noble credit for tonight expansive gameplan.

Thats all that i will say on the matter as im off out now glad in the knowledge that Noble has proven his doubters wrong and inside they know that all too well hence the need to cling onto the consistancy issue which seems to suddenly become something you can coach into a team

What, you go the the game, go home to post on here, then turn out again?

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:38 pm  

Red Hot Jalapeno wrote:

The reason he has not had a reply is because the post was rediculous.

If you seriously think for the first game of the season any coach would throw 2 unproven young lads in when there was no need to take such a gamble then you really need a reality check. Both players had not even played a first team game!!

The reality is Tomkins and Ainscough were both unproven squad players. Smith and Phelps (like it or not) started the season infront of them in the pecking order. To blame Noble for not picking Tomkins and Ainscough against Wakefield is unbelievable!

Personally I would have thought that the first game of the season at home against a seriously depleted Wakefield side would be a good opportunity to give them a go. Our young players have to start somewhere.

Lets leave aside Smith for a moment, since he has the potential to be a good player (but clearly has fitness and other issues) and I suppose you can make out some kind of case there, although I wouldn't agree.

Are you seriously suggesting that BN did the right thing in picking Phelps ahead of Ainscough?

I can understand you wanting to defend BN generally (and I could just about get my head round an argument that BN did the right thing in picking Smith ahead of Tomkins) but that is ridiculous.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:43 pm  

thepriestman85 wrote:

I can most defiantly agree with this one! Lets just agree to disagree yes?

For the record I hope Friday’s excellent win/performance is the sign that we have turned the corner and can now kick on to bigger and better things and string a good set of W’s together and start to climb the table.

Finally. Something we agree on!

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:43 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Sorry Jonh but you can't know that for certain. Nobby told me after the Cas defeat the players were not doing what they had practiced all week.

If the players are not doing what they are told who is to blame for this, if it was a one off then fair play the finger can be pointed directly at the players, if though on the other hand it is the case that good performances with the aspects discussed are a one off then the finger has to point towards the coach.

If he is sending them out with a game plan that they are not able to follow, then again you have to look at his failure to get the message across if it occurs on multiple occasions.

Coaching is not just about knowledge it is about comunicating that knowledge which if the players consistently fail to carry out what he thinks he is putting to them then that is a reflection of the failure on the coaches behalf.

In simple terms if i get my secutary at work to make me a cup of Tea but she brings me a coffee then 1 off i can say she made an error and i deal with it. If over the course of 10 days i ask for a cup of tea and on 8 occasions she brings me coffee, i have to start questioning myself and looking at what exactly I am doing wrong for her to fail in such a simple task. Random use of a situation, especially given i drink neither tea or coffee, but i think it gets the point across hopefully.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:46 pm  

Red Hot Jalapeno wrote:

The reason he has not had a reply is because the post was rediculous.

If you seriously think for the first game of the season any coach would throw 2 unproven young lads in when there was no need to take such a gamble then you really need a reality check. Both players had not even played a first team game!!

The reality is Tomkins and Ainscough were both unproven squad players. Smith and Phelps (like it or not) started the season infront of them in the pecking order. To blame Noble for not picking Tomkins and Ainscough against Wakefield is unbelievable!

Why is when anyone even remotely critics Nobles team selection you jump down their throats? Are you Brian’s mum or something? Whats up are we picking on lickle Brian awh bless.

The fact of the matter is one of the main reasons we lost to what was a very weak Wakey side was Noble decided to employ a policy of musical positions by not having Sam on the bench. Lockers ended up at six FFS how can you not see a problem with this when we had a perfectly good HB sat in the stands? Admit Noble made a mistake-go on it won’t hurt……..

Now as far as I can see Sam hasn’t played many reserves games since the Wakefield game, he’s not added any extra weight or gained any more experience so I can’t for the life of me work out why Noble seemed to think it was ok to play him away to a much better Quins team than play him at home to a Injury ravaged Wakefield?

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:47 pm  

Red Hot Jalapeno wrote:

Are you always this numb?

The point of this thread (as ive stated loads of times but you ignore) is Jonh and others have gone on like a broken record that Noble cannot coach anything but 5 drives and a kick-a theory well and truely blown out of the water by Fridays superb attacking performance. I can only assume you think the way the team played on Friday had nothing to do with Noble.

The thread was nothing to do with who's fault it was or wasnt that we have lost 3 games.

As for your keep swapping players comment well i can only assume you want to keep swapping coaches? Oh hang on weve already tried that and i imagine you was one of the people who blasted Lindsay for sacking coaches!!

The highlighted bit is a little rich coming from you......So you assume I think the way the team played on friday had nothing to do with noble (now who's numb!) of course it had something to do with noble...as did the other games this season...oh and the last three as well .

But you choose to ignore that after one good game...

You also "imagine" I was one of the people who blasted lindsay for sacking coaches not so...in fact I blasted lindsay more when he appointed millward..

I once asked you who signed this team of wasters as you called them..only to be told that didn't matter (well you would not want to put noble in a position he has to answer for.....no doubt you blame IL for the likes of phelps and mathers).

By the way I've never gone on about noble not being able to coach anything but 5 drives and a kick-a theory...more for the teams poor predictable style of play ....now it seems there is another way forward with attacking flair and I look forward to more of the same. After all we are all wigan fans who want the best for the team. now we need to carry it on into the leeds game and the rest of the season....if noble is the man to take us forward so be it only time will tell.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:47 pm  

jonh wrote:

I have been told from a couple of sources, 1 being a poster on here that there is more to Smith being dropped than form, it is apparently a wider issue, so potentially again this crucial decision MAY well, if the mutterings are true, have been made for him.

This may be the case Johnh, I havent hear anything regarding Smith off field activities, but isnt it funny we have turned into a side that is based on "form rather than reputation" overnight. I just hope this statement of intent isn't just a flash in the pan and we move towards a team which is predominately made up of players who have come through our youth system.

I was listening to GMR on Sunday and they had an interview with Sam Tomkins after the bradford match and he said "I am loving it, it is all i ever wanted to do since I was the age of 6 (play for wigan).." This comment almost brought a tear to my eye!! I think the other comments he made about other players in the reserves "champing at the bit to be given their chance" is also quite significant... how long will it be before the other lads coming through get their chance??

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:54 pm  

WarriorSteve wrote:

This may be the case Johnh, I havent hear anything regarding Smith off field activities, but isnt it funny we have turned into a side that is based on "form rather than reputation" overnight. I just hope this statement of intent isn't just a flash in the pan and we move towards a team which is predominately made up of players who have come through our youth system.

I was listening to GMR on Sunday and they had an interview with Sam Tomkins after the bradford match and he said "I am loving it, it is all i ever wanted to do since I was the age of 6 (play for wigan).." This comment almost brought a tear to my eye!! I think the other comments he made about other players in the reserves "champing at the bit to be given their chance" is also quite significant... how long will it be before the other lads coming through get their chance??

Agree with this it was a very odd turn of phrase that he used it was something that stood out at the time, almost like a bit of a respectfull flip of the V's.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:59 pm  

Deano G wrote:

Personally I would have thought that the first game of the season at home against a seriously depleted Wakefield side would be a good opportunity to give them a go. Our young players have to start somewhere.

Lets leave aside Smith for a moment, since he has the potential to be a good player (but clearly has fitness and other issues) and I suppose you can make out some kind of case there, although I wouldn't agree.

Are you seriously suggesting that BN did the right thing in picking Phelps ahead of Ainscough?

I can understand you wanting to defend BN generally (and I could just about get my head round an argument that BN did the right thing in picking Smith ahead of Tomkins) but that is ridiculous.

Ainscough's current form makes the decision to keep him in the reserves for so long look nonsensical. He's now played three times for the first team, and has been very good on each occasion. This isn't just a case of beginner's luck.

However, it pains me to see Wigan fans arguing bitterly over this sort of thing.

As someone else said, it isn't really a black and white issue. I don't think Nobby's been as good for Wigan as I hoped he was going to be when we first announced him. But a coach with his record can not just be written off as 'crap'. It can't be that simple.

Personally, I don't think I've ever called for him to be sacked, but I've certainly expressed disatisfaction and concern with the way his team has been playing these last few years. One or two good wins are just not adequate for a club like ours. Likewise, Noble's been slow to promote youth. Not as slow as some would claim, but he's clearly not been eager to pitch the kids in. However, I don't really buy this 'he only did it because he had to' viewpoint. I'd argue that most youngsters only really get their chance when injuries open doors for them. If they then kick on and show what they can do, and are subsequently left out again, that's a big question-mark against the coach's wisdom. But so far Noble hasn't done that. Prescott, O'Carroll and Joel Tomkins have all come to the fore under Noble, and - regardless of whether or not he was 'forced' to pick them in the first place - he's kept faith with them since, rewarding their efforts with regular selection. I can't understand why some Noble doubters continue to ignore this piece of evidence, and think it's very odd and contrary of them.

One thing I reckon we'll all agree on is that we hope what we saw on Saturday night will now continue through the season. If Noble can get this team to play like that for a good few months, I'd happily hand him another contract myself. The days of posters on here seeing Wigan defeats as small victories for themselves over rival posters seem thankfully to be a thing of the past.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:06 pm  

I would also add to this there seemed to be some indication from AJ, RHJ and Brett that Noble was not "forced" to drop Smith, when there are some mutterings that suggest he was, something i was not aware of but something i asked a few people about after getting a PM on here, and there certainly seems to be some substance to it, from people closer to the club than me.

Not for a second saying it is 100% true as the people i asked are more fellow players who are friends of or once played at Wigan, with no direct link to Wigan if you like anymore, but it is another potentially very interesting twist, that may come out in time.