That's a good back line.

How we end up out on the field is another matter.

A back line with no recognised goal kicker and with an exceptionally limited kicking game. SW seem to think these pretty basic skills aren't required when in fact they should be a prerequisite for the job.

Sorry for the negativity but the pack is lightweight in size and ability plus the backs are used sparingly in attack but are good for making the "hard yards"

The saving grace could be if ST has got his head out of his arris and starts performing like a rugby player rather than a prima donna. ST for me probably has more natural ability than any other SL player but it will be 5 years since we saw him demonstrate that on a regular basis rather than a cameo once or twice a season.

He needs to take over the mantle from SOL and tell SW to buggier off with the tripe we have served up in the last 4 years and let him rule the roost on the field.

Itchy you can’t just go out and sign a recognised goal kicker. They have to be a better player than the one they’ll replace first and foremost. If you can tell me a realistic target that fits the bill I’m all ears.



SW clearly recognises the need to improve our kicking, hence Charlie Hodgson’s appointment.



As for ST, the lad hasn’t had a preseason for 9 years and has missed the best part of 2 years with very serious injuries. He’s a human being, not a machine, give him a break!



If he’s doesn’t deliver next season then I’d be critical because there can be no excuse. We’ve had enough negativity to last us a lifetime (not just from you) and I reckon it’s time to move forward. Pre-season games are not far off so it’s time to get behind the club and be positive. After all, tis the season of good will etc.....

He may be in the squad but he has declared himself unavailable!

Pat Richards left in 2013 and it's 2018 in less than 3 weeks how long do you need to find a replacement? It's either complacency or ineptness I will leave you to decide.

I am a big fan of ST but cameos once or twice a year are an insufficient payback for his payroll cost. Personally I would give him the captaincy in the hope that he of mature years now and he can kick on again and place his stamp on the style of game we play.

By the way the negativity is driven by the club with it's pretty useless performances on and off the pitch. Give the fans something to talk about, something to look forward to (NOT the game in Australia) and give us back a bit of pride back by playing something closely related to RL rather than the prissy, turgid shoite they have rolled out for the past 3 years then the negativity will decrease.

By the way not for one moment did I expect a major overhaul this season (it will in 2019 though) but ye gods Sarginson coming back after a year on the lash in Australia isn't what I expected either.

A Happy Christmas to you Bigred and your family

You haven’t answered my question mate. Who do you consider a realistic target who is better than one of our starting 13 who can kick goals? I’m not happy with our kick success rate but I’m happy the club have made an effort to address it and I’d rather have Hodgson in than a weaker player just because they can kick.



In regards to ST, it’s unfair to refer to one or 2 cameo appearances when he played every game since returning from injuries last season. I suspect nobody at the club realised the extent of his injuries when he was brought back as a marquee player and I don’t think it’s right to judge him yet. Let’s see how he goes after his 1st pre-season in 9 years and then judge him. I wouldn’t make him captain until Lockers calls it a day but he’d be my choice as his successor.



I also agree that the standard of RL over the last few years hasn’t been great but I do see some mitigation but that’s been done to death on here. I honestly believe we have a very strong squad and with a bit more luck with injuries we’ll be there or there abouts again next season. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that we won the GF in 2016 and are currently world club champions who reached Wembley in 2017. No it’s not good enough but only because we’ve been spoiled over the years.



Merry Christmas to you and yours matey!

Regarding the captaincy - what about Farrell? Doesn't show the same petulance as S.Tomkins, don't think I ever remember him having a bad season, has stayed committed to the club rather than jumping ship. Won loads of medals with us. He would be my choice. Sam has enough pressure on him, and I'm not convinced his temperament is suited to it. I've got a horrible feeling Wane will give it to McIlorum

You are a good poster Richie but on this occasion you have been miss-informed. I will wager you any amount you like Gelling isn't coming back. In fact i would bet you all the tea in China that Sarginson IS Gelling's replacement.

one more potential incoming. A World Cup player who did very well. It would certainly appease the fans. I cant say any more at this point but watch this space

disco thor?

Not a huge fan of tea, so lets say all the coffee in Colombia and your on





I wasn't misinformed by anyone, it's my job to sort his supplementation and given the fact only 4-days ago we discussed his requirements with no talk of shipping to New Zealand

I was simply relaying my opinion he will be with us next year.

I hope you have a BIG coffee jar to send to C_W. He's gone.

I would have arranged the bet before divulging that info

I hope you're right, Sarginson is a great signing if he has been bought as a utility, though I think we would have been better using the cap space on a Scrum half or Prop.

He has indeed gone. Im not one to gloat or reveal my sources but i could, COULD be wrong about Sarginson being his direct replacement because the World Cup player i was on about in an earlier post is also a centre. That would put Sarge 3rd choice centre or 2nd choice full back assuming Sam is going to 6. If all this happens then i will hold my hands up and say i was wrong about the Sarginson signing because as a back up he is a lot better than what we have.

Problem is though Grimmy Richie rightly so, knew 4 days ago (at that point) he was staying but i knew 2 days ago that he wasn't. Its like going all in with a straight flush against a royal flush. i couldn't lose

Just posted what i'd been told RichieS

Not ignoring you Rogues I can see I have a message from you however I can’t open it, assuming it is regarding Gelling.



I’ve heard from a couple of different sources he is gone no reason to doubt any.



Sad to see him go to be honest as in a dull few years he has at least provided the odd moment of entertainment.



I expect we will be playing a very different style of rugby next year one in which he would have thrived but it’s not to be.



We have a squad capable of winning trophies regardless IF as I expect we will change our style.

Really do hope we change our style because I agree our squad should at the very least be serious contenders.

I keep remembering that game at Wire when Ben Flower got sent off and the team just said sod it and actually played rugby league, FPN was unstoppable, it's true, watch in on youtube, Tomkins did what Tomkins used to do, said give me the ball and watch this.

Tony Smith being shell shocked at the end of the game admitting they didn't know how to cope with Wigan playing in that manner was priceless.

Don't post very often on here nowadays.



My brother in law is a former Wigan player and he came to our house on the 28th October to watch the Anthony Joshua fight. He told me then that Gelling was definitely going.

The question of a kicker (and in that I mean goal kicker and out of hand) is a larger subject than just that specific skill set.

Of our top 5 earners by whom I assume ST, GW, SOL, MM and JT none of them are reliable regular kickers. IL, KR and SW have engineered this no one else. They for what ever reason deem kicking to be unimportant. If ST plays 6 and GW plays 7 next year we wont a half who has any sort of a tactical kicking game and GW is very hot and cold on conversions.

The squad hasn't been announced yet but we will have 4 hookers who effectively play the same role style/role so even here where could mix things up a little like other teams. We have zero options.

I genuinely only watch NRL occasionally but I don't think that there are any sides who don't have at least one player as their go to player for tactical kicking and all have regular nominated goal kicker. In RU all sides including amateur teams have a regular kicker and when I played all of the backline were expected to have a half decent kicking out of hand skill level. Historically all top RL teams have always had a top goal kicker and in recent history when tactical kicking is even more important all top sides have a go to player for tactical kicking and conversions indeed clubs build their team around this player.

What do we do? We organise a kicking competition in January to see which players can be d to take part in a kicking competition. If it wasn't so serious it would be hilarious.



I accept and fully understand the limits of the salary cap so I know at times there are no easy or short term solutions but shouldn't we at least be planning for the future? When Smith went why didn't we sign a kicker then? I understand that players with good kicking abilities don't grow on trees and I can understand a season where we may struggle due to cap restrictions etc I could probably just about accept 2 seasons if it meant we got a top liner but we are now 5 seasons since Pat Richards left and we have just got a part time short term contract coach to help the situation. If our gym burned down would the club wait 5 years to replace or fix it?

If the mat in the wrestling pit was ripped and worn through would we wait 5 years to replace it?



KR, SW & IL will have the mobile number of every agent in the game in the UK and Australia. They have scouts throughout the north of England. Are we seriously accepting that in 5 years with all that net working capability they couldn't nail this issue or even have a failed attempt at it??



So scene setting over I would let any of our top 5 earners (as above) go if it meant we could get a top flight kicker. I'd let ST, GW & SOL collectively go in a heartbeat if we could attract the half who played for Lebanon in the world cup.

On the SL front players who I believe have been available in the past 5 years who I would have signed are McShane, Finn, Sneyd. None of them world beaters but I suspect all earning less than our top 5 and all would add to the squad skill sets we are sadly lacking. Would they be my preference? Absolutely not. However, one of those guys could have given us a bit breathing space until we found a longer term solution either through the academy or through other pro clubs. Didn't we sign Deacon at the end of career knowing full well it was a short term fix?

I haven't seen a great deal of Josh Woods but I have been led to believe that he has good kicking game so why not give him a run out instead of TL last season when it was apparent to a guy with no nose that TL stunk the place out on the kicking front.



It is Bigred a difficult problem however, KR, SW and IL are paid big money and have the contacts to solve this. Organising a kicking competition isn't the way forward. It may be inexpensive and it may keep the top 5 earners but it doesn't resolve the issue. My main gripe is that they don't seem to have the appetite or urgency to solve it.



By the way enjoy your trip to Australia

Not unless someone leaves, we have spent up to the cap. Maybe Mickey Mac has decided to sign for Catalans!

Is this the Tongan centre?

Question is which one if its the Tongan as gets mentioned on the other board.



1 would be top drawer but doubt it would be him.

The only one possible would be Hurrell but there are no indications it could be him. If it is Hurrell then it’ll be because their new coach Garth Brennan (who’s regarded as the next big thing in coaching) wants him out which doesn’t exactly bode well.

There are a lot of rumours that Mcilorum is coming .The Dragons in fact badly need another half back not another forward.However it can be argued that since most of our forwards are elderly and injury prone Mcilorum would fit in well .

Good luck next year. Your u.19 team last year was outstanding .