Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:00 am  

Do they mean for a holiday or for good?

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:01 am  

If FPN is going it should give us some cap space to start to fill some very large holes in quality that we don't have compared to our rivals.

We're missing three types of player that I'd say our major rivals have at least two of (some all three)

1. A half with an excellent long and short kicking game.

2. A multi-dimensional dummy half (i.e. good at running, passing and creating)

3. A tough, yard eating, hard-working prop. (some have more than one - we have none)

Over time we have to fill these three holes.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:03 am  

Trainman wrote:

Wigan Today website is reporting FPN is heading back home. If true I'd imagine that gives us a bit of cap space to play with.

If true, I'd go with the props we have got rather than replacing him, use the cap space on a scrum half with a bit of creativity and a kicking game . Not saying I'm particularly happy with our props, but a halfback is surely our number 1 priority.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:21 am  

I would have thought that the first priority would be a player of first team quality who can kick goals. Many fans bemoan our attack, yet we were second in the Superleague for tries scored. George and Tommy both have decent short kicking games. Escare really surprised me with his long kicking game, it's a pity we never got the chance to see Escare #1, Sam Tomkins #6 and Williams#7 that may have helped, but I don't think it solves the goalkicking issue.

I guess what I'm saying is that we just can't sign a goalkicker like Jamie Foster if they aren't good enough to be in the first team on merit.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:58 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I would have thought that the first priority would be a player of first team quality who can kick goals. Many fans bemoan our attack, yet we were second in the Superleague for tries scored. George and Tommy both have decent short kicking games. Escare really surprised me with his long kicking game, it's a pity we never got the chance to see Escare #1, Sam Tomkins #6 and Williams#7 that may have helped, but I don't think it solves the goalkicking issue.

I guess what I'm saying is that we just can't sign a goalkicker like Jamie Foster if they aren't good enough to be in the first team on merit.

Totally agree. That would be a massive error.

I agree with most of the stipulations made in these last few posts. But if the club is thinking this way too, then unfortunately it may be a while before we can secure someone who fulfills these criteria.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:09 am  

Grimmy wrote:

If true, I'd go with the props we have got rather than replacing him, use the cap space on a scrum half with a bit of creativity and a kicking game . Not saying I'm particularly happy with our props, but a halfback is surely our number 1 priority.

When we were at the start of our injury crisis Early season we suffered quite a lot of problems in the backs 3/4qtrs.
Whilst undoubtedly an issue at the time the big problem for me was the loss of Clubb & Flower (And to a lesser extent Bretherton) for 3/4 months and the rest of the season respectively.
We had lost 2 props end of the previous year in Crosby & Mossop with around 45 appearances between them and I think the emergence of Bretherton & the Navarette signing were intended to fill that gap and possibly due to salary cap issues I could see the reasoning along with the potential to use Lockers there.

However

Losing Clubb & Flower (in particular) left us very lightweight and we ran basically with 3 props in FPN/Sutton & TT for around 4/5 months until Clubbs return. Even though I haven't been massively impressed with FPN I have always defended him based on his game time this season, TT has been disappointing compared to 2016 however Sutton for me has been fantastic for a 21 year old and 30+ games this year to supplement an almost ever present 2016 (Missed 1 game I think?) is a fantastic return but also a Worry.

We didn't replace those 45 games Mossop & Crosby played & we lost 30+ games from Flower & Clubb and to me that is the Cornerstone of our issue this year (Not saying the scrum half issue isn't a problem, I just think it's been magnified by our lack of Game time/options etc. up front).

Now to say if FPN goes we would be ok without replacing him is way off the mark to me - Yes we will have Flower back - But that would only replace FPN to a front row we already acknowledge is short of bodies, Yes touch wood we will have Clubb for the whole season but that would still only leave us with 4 x front line props plus Bretherton.
I think we need at least 1 more Battle hardened 30 game a season Prop to supplement these 5 (And use Lockers/Hamlin as a prop sparingly) to share the workload far better than we've been able to this year.

With the return of Escare, the possibility of using Sam T at 1 or 6 - The return of Shorrocks Hopefully & the emergence of Ganson it leaves us with enough options at FB x2 (ST & Escare - Poss even Davies if needed?) - Halfback x 5 (GW,ST,SP,TL & JS - Poss even Woods) & Hooker x 5 (MM,SP,TL,JG,& Shorrocks).

I just don't think 5 props would be enough

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:38 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I would have thought that the first priority would be a player of first team quality who can kick goals. Many fans bemoan our attack, yet we were second in the Superleague for tries scored. George and Tommy both have decent short kicking games. Escare really surprised me with his long kicking game, it's a pity we never got the chance to see Escare #1, Sam Tomkins #6 and Williams#7 that may have helped, but I don't think it solves the goalkicking issue.

I guess what I'm saying is that we just can't sign a goalkicker like Jamie Foster if they aren't good enough to be in the first team on merit.

If I were Tom Davies/Liam Marshall I'd be kicking and kicking and kicking again all through the off season, try your best to get yourself over 80%, when (hopefully) Manfredi comes back, winger is going to be a very crowded area.
Make yourself undroppable.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:46 am  

I think recruitment all hinges on what the club decide to do in the halves next year.

If we go with Tomkins at FB and TL & GW in the halves then we could look to strengthen the pack.

If we are looking to move Tomkins to the Halves or recruit a half back then either TL, SP or MM need to move on and we need cover for FB/Wing.

For me I think we should be looking at a big second row forward rather than a prop. We have Flower, Clubb, TT and Sutton with Hamlin and Bretherton backing up, I'd expect JT to continue to play in the middle rotating with SOL leaving us light in the SR. A Ben Murdock Masilla (sp?) type player to provide size and impact off the bench would suit me.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:53 am  

Jukesays wrote:

When we were at the start of our injury crisis Early season we suffered quite a lot of problems in the backs 3/4qtrs.
Whilst undoubtedly an issue at the time the big problem for me was the loss of Clubb & Flower (And to a lesser extent Bretherton) for 3/4 months and the rest of the season respectively.
We had lost 2 props end of the previous year in Crosby & Mossop with around 45 appearances between them and I think the emergence of Bretherton & the Navarette signing were intended to fill that gap and possibly due to salary cap issues I could see the reasoning along with the potential to use Lockers there.

However

Losing Clubb & Flower (in particular) left us very lightweight and we ran basically with 3 props in FPN/Sutton & TT for around 4/5 months until Clubbs return. Even though I haven't been massively impressed with FPN I have always defended him based on his game time this season, TT has been disappointing compared to 2016 however Sutton for me has been fantastic for a 21 year old and 30+ games this year to supplement an almost ever present 2016 (Missed 1 game I think?) is a fantastic return but also a Worry.

We didn't replace those 45 games Mossop & Crosby played & we lost 30+ games from Flower & Clubb and to me that is the Cornerstone of our issue this year (Not saying the scrum half issue isn't a problem, I just think it's been magnified by our lack of Game time/options etc. up front).

Now to say if FPN goes we would be ok without replacing him is way off the mark to me - Yes we will have Flower back - But that would only replace FPN to a front row we already acknowledge is short of bodies, Yes touch wood we will have Clubb for the whole season but that would still only leave us with 4 x front line props plus Bretherton.
I think we need at least 1 more Battle hardened 30 game a season Prop to supplement these 5 (And use Lockers/Hamlin as a prop sparingly) to share the workload far better than we've been able to this year.

With the return of Escare, the possibility of using Sam T at 1 or 6 - The return of Shorrocks Hopefully & the emergence of Ganson it leaves us with enough options at FB x2 (ST & Escare - Poss even Davies if needed?) - Halfback x 5 (GW,ST,SP,TL & JS - Poss even Woods) & Hooker x 5 (MM,SP,TL,JG,& Shorrocks).

I just don't think 5 props would be enough

Do you not see J.Tomkins moving into the prop role? Assuming Bretherton and Navarette have gone, that would make 6 (J.Tomkins, Flower, Clubb, Tautai, Sutton, Hamlin), with 5 of those having plenty SL experience. Isa also an option there if needed (i.e if we had 3 missing), with Wells or Field coming into the back row. I think that's reasonable depth/experience, though whether they perform is obviously another question, you can say that across the board though.

In the halves, agreed we have options, and my preference would be giving S.Tomkins a run there if we can't sign anyone good enough. It's a big ask for him to re-invent himself as a controlling 7 though, and who knows whether any of the others are ready. I just think it's such an important position to have uncertainty over, like an NFL team going into a season not knowing whether they have a good quarterback.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:15 am  

Grimmy wrote:

I just think it's such an important position to have uncertainty over, like an NFL team going into a season not knowing whether they have a good quarterback.

Absolutely!