: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:11 pm  

warriorweed wrote:

Only time will tell whether Saturday was the start of a brand new era of flowing rugby or another false dawn.

In truth there have been one off performances like this that have punctuated Nobles reign at the club and we have soon slipped back to normal. i.e Hull at home last year when we scored 60 and then got hammered by Leeds who scored 50+ a week or two later.

In my opinion people who said that we should not knee jerk over the first 3 games should also not do the same over one performance against a side who played as badly as I have ever seen them.

Another factor is that Bradford appear to be a club that Nobby finds it easier to coach against as with Leeds, the real acid test will be when we play teams who ask questions of the defence eg. Saints.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:14 pm  

Some people are so fickle towards different aspects of the club.
Noble has made the needed changes as the season's progressed, changes that all us fans wanted and got.

Mathers dropped Sam Tomkins, Ainscough in, and Pat moved to full back. He even went one step further and completely dropped Smith from the 17, this shows a man who is bold, level headed but isn't afraid to make changes, thus resulting in a big win against 'Brat-ford'.

We looked better than ever this week, but I feel the wrong fixture maybe upon us next week, the nobby knockers will be out in full if we lose next week, but lets look at it realistically.. Leeds away is arguably the toughest fixture in the league, if we lose it isn't the end of the world, but it does me we'll be 2-6 which once again highlights a poor start to the season despite how much improvement we've seen this week.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:21 pm  

warriorweed wrote:

Only time will tell whether Saturday was the start of a brand new era of flowing rugby or another false dawn.

In truth there have been one off performances like this that have punctuated Nobles reign at the club and we have soon slipped back to normal. i.e Hull at home last year when we scored 60 and then got hammered by Leeds who scored 50+ a week or two later.

In my opinion people who said that we should not knee jerk over the first 3 games should also not do the same over one performance against a side who played as badly as I have ever seen them.

Another factor is that Bradford appear to be a club that Nobby finds it easier to coach against as with Leeds, the real acid test will be when we play teams who ask questions of the defence eg. Saints.

I couldn't have put it better myself - a great performance but a one-off, until the team can perform to something like that standard week in week out there will always questions asked. I have had doubts about the coaching based on recent performances and some dire performances last season - until the team performs to this standard regularly I will keep those doubts. If they can play at this level consistently then I will be have those doubts removed. Simple really.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:22 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Some people are so fickle towards different aspects of the club.
Noble has made the needed changes as the season's progressed, changes that all us fans wanted and got.

Mathers dropped Sam Tomkins, Ainscough in, and Pat moved to full back. He even went one step further and completely dropped Smith from the 17, this shows a man who is bold, level headed but isn't afraid to make changes, thus resulting in a big win against 'Brat-ford'.

We looked better than ever this week, but I feel the wrong fixture maybe upon us next week, the nobby knockers will be out in full if we lose next week, but lets look at it realistically.. Leeds away is arguably the toughest fixture in the league, if we lose it isn't the end of the world, but it does me we'll be 2-6 which once again highlights a poor start to the season despite how much improvement we've seen this week.

I would say quite the opposite a fickle opinion would be to start shouting from the rooftops just how outstanding everything is. Most of the Noble doubters including myself have said the acid test is not next week, but comes in the weeks following it.

To look back over the 3 years of evidence but chose to forget it because we played well on one occasion is daft.

As i said earlier i am optomistic about the rest of his time here, i think he is finally showing signs of flexibility and evolving as a coach, its a shame it took such lengths for him to do this, but hopefully he has done it and the evidence will be there for the rest of the year.

I have been very critical of Noble but also am happy to praise him, when he gets it right, as i said earlier those on the flip side of the debate it seems to me everyone but Noble is to blame when things are going wrong, yet he is totally responsible when it goes right. Its a flawed line to take to say the least.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:24 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Some people are so fickle towards different aspects of the club.
Noble has made the needed changes as the season's progressed, changes that all us fans wanted and got.

Mathers dropped Sam Tomkins, Ainscough in, and Pat moved to full back. He even went one step further and completely dropped Smith from the 17, this shows a man who is bold, level headed but isn't afraid to make changes, thus resulting in a big win against 'Brat-ford'.

We looked better than ever this week, but I feel the wrong fixture maybe upon us next week, the nobby knockers will be out in full if we lose next week, but lets look at it realistically.. Leeds away is arguably the toughest fixture in the league, if we lose it isn't the end of the world, but it does me we'll be 2-6 which once again highlights a poor start to the season despite how much improvement we've seen this week.

I wouldn't regard losing at Leeds as the end of the world - if we lose it will be about performance - if we play well and make a real fight of it and push Leeds all the way then thats ok. In many ways it will be a good test - the team have to perofrm like they did against Bradford they can't afford to take it easy or slacken off - the $64000 question is can they repeat it?

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:41 pm  

Salty wrote:

Why didn't he pick this team against Wakefield?

I notice you haven't had a reply from the Nobby believers to this brief but excellent post.

The fact is that BN started this season preferring Smith and Phelps to Tomkins and Ainscough.

We had a shocking performance at home against Wakefield that was very similar to the dismal Hudds game last year and then 2 further defeats.

I accept the glory era will never return but what I can't accept are performances like that or players and coaches bleating about criticism from the fans in the press.

2 wins from 5 simply isn't good enough for Wigan.

Yes we performed better on Saturday, thank God. But the team selection has been arrived at by BN almost by accident and lets face it, that was a really, really bad Bradford team.

Saturday was an important step in the right direction but BN still has a lot of work to do, as do some of the players.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:17 pm  

Deano G wrote:

I notice you haven't had a reply from the Nobby believers to this brief but excellent post.

The fact is that BN started this season preferring Smith and Phelps to Tomkins and Ainscough.

The reason he has not had a reply is because the post was rediculous.

If you seriously think for the first game of the season any coach would throw 2 unproven young lads in when there was no need to take such a gamble then you really need a reality check. Both players had not even played a first team game!!

The reality is Tomkins and Ainscough were both unproven squad players. Smith and Phelps (like it or not) started the season infront of them in the pecking order. To blame Noble for not picking Tomkins and Ainscough against Wakefield is unbelievable!

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:27 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Some people are so fickle towards different aspects of the club.
Noble has made the needed changes as the season's progressed, changes that all us fans wanted and got.

Mathers dropped Sam Tomkins, Ainscough in, and Pat moved to full back. He even went one step further and completely dropped Smith from the 17, this shows a man who is bold, level headed but isn't afraid to make changes, thus resulting in a big win against 'Brat-ford'.

We looked better than ever this week, but I feel the wrong fixture maybe upon us next week, the nobby knockers will be out in full if we lose next week, but lets look at it realistically.. Leeds away is arguably the toughest fixture in the league, if we lose it isn't the end of the world, but it does me we'll be 2-6 which once again highlights a poor start to the season despite how much improvement we've seen this week.

I think realistically we can win, but the performance is the most important thing, I don't think anyone expects us to go through the rest of the season unbeaten but as long as the poor performances are "one offs" instead of the good performances being "one offs" then a lot of the criticism will disappear, but after losing nearlly half our games last year and starting so poorly this, please let me and other noble doubters reserve judgement on changing our opinion.... and if the performences are poor how long will we have to wait until the "pro-noble" change theirs??

Dropping Smith was the biggest single management decision noble has made since being at the club... and I was shocked when he was ommited from the 17... but I didnt see his golden boy fielden being dropped when he was in a similar poor run of form in previous seasons . I think maybe noble has realised that his long honeymoon period at wigan is over and he has too show his worth on a more consistent basis, peoples opinions on websites and also from within the club have somewhat forced his hand to give ainscough and tomkins a chance and keep them there, I just wonder if ainscough and Tomkins hadn't made such dramatic impacts when given their chance whether Mathers/pryce/smith would have been in the 17 on saturday and if that is the case.. Is one game in the first team, giving youth a chance???

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:29 pm  

jonh wrote:

I agree those 2 aspect would significantly help, but the game plan of support runners, cutting angles and the expansive play from all our players clearly was not sent out with them in the first 4 games.

Sorry Jonh but you can't know that for certain. Nobby told me after the Cas defeat the players were not doing what they had practiced all week.

: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:32 pm  

WarriorSteve wrote:

I think realistically we can win, but the performance is the most important thing, I don't think anyone expects us to go through the rest of the season unbeaten but as long as the poor performances are "one offs" instead of the good performances being "one offs" then a lot of the criticism will disappear, but after losing nearlly half our games last year and starting so poorly this, please let me and other noble doubters reserve judgement on changing our opinion.... and if the performences are poor how long will we have to wait until the "pro-noble" change theirs??

Dropping Smith was the biggest single management decision noble has made since being at the club... and I was shocked when he was ommited from the 17... but I didnt see his golden boy fielden being dropped when he was in a similar poor run of form in previous seasons . I think maybe noble has realised that his long honeymoon period at wigan is over and he has too show his worth on a more consistent basis, peoples opinions on websites and also from within the club have somewhat forced his hand to give ainscough and tomkins a chance and keep them there, I just wonder if ainscough and Tomkins hadn't made such dramatic impacts when given their chance whether Mathers/pryce/smith would have been in the 17 on saturday and if that is the case.. Is one game in the first team, giving youth a chance???

I have been told from a couple of sources, 1 being a poster on here that there is more to Smith being dropped than form, it is apparently a wider issue, so potentially again this crucial decision MAY well, if the mutterings are true, have been made for him.