: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:15 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I'll get it out of the way.............................who's that?

We missed out on Carvell and Ryles(glad about Ryles tbh) and have now missed out on Tronc. All of these would have improved us.

Rumour on the Saints board also has it that Gold Coast have agreed to release Luke Bailey to play for them in 2010. If thats another we've missed out on I despair.

I really do hope that Lenagan saying we probably won't sign anybody is balls to throw teams of the scent of a player or 2. I'd be happy enough with just one prop aslong as players like Mossop continued to be played.

The thing that worries me is Lenagan saying we've no space to move under the cap without loaning players out. Whats happened to Hock and Smiths money? surely that can't have all gone on upgrading a couple of youngsters contracts

I agree that tronc is a good player, and Carvell has gone well at Warrington. The only thing I have an issue with is the conclusion that because Wakey could sign Tronc for example and pay him what he was asking for and fit it under their cap, that it automatically follows that we would have a) been able to fit him in and b) thought he was actually worth the exact figure requested.

We have to accept that we have no idea of the cap breakdown within the club, or what the longer term strategy is, for example do you sign a 100k player now for 120k if you can just about fit him in, or do you wait till you can sign a 150k player for 150k when they become available and you have the extra space.

In the days of the cap, and paying off contracts still counting against it, you need to plan several moves in advance and let it play out like a game of chess.

For me, I have to believe that IL has the best interests of the club at heart and wants to see it being a success, or I'll be too negative to even enjoy the game anymore.

: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:27 pm  

Steve Ella's Beard wrote:

I agree that tronc is a good player, and Carvell has gone well at Warrington. The only thing I have an issue with is the conclusion that because Wakey could sign Tronc for example and pay him what he was asking for and fit it under their cap, that it automatically follows that we would have a) been able to fit him in and b) thought he was actually worth the exact figure requested.

We have to accept that we have no idea of the cap breakdown within the club, or what the longer term strategy is, for example do you sign a 100k player now for 120k if you can just about fit him in, or do you wait till you can sign a 150k player for 150k when they become available and you have the extra space.

In the days of the cap, and paying off contracts still counting against it, you need to plan several moves in advance and let it play out like a game of chess.

For me, I have to believe that IL has the best interests of the club at heart and wants to see it being a success, or I'll be too negative to even enjoy the game anymore.

There is a very strict sallary structure at Wakefield, they will not have paid over the odds for him of that i am certain, they will have got him at market value at the most, which is all anyone can ask for.

They are also opperating at a lower cap than us due to financial restrictions and have brought in 2 other pretty high profile signings so i would be surprised if we were not at least in a position to match the offer made to him.

: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:32 pm  

jonh wrote:

There is a very strict sallary structure at Wakefield, they will not have paid over the odds for him of that i am certain, they will have got him at market value at the most, which is all anyone can ask for.

They are also opperating at a lower cap than us due to financial restrictions and have brought in 2 other pretty high profile signings so i would be surprised if we were not at least in a position to match the offer made to him.

If we were perhaps in a position to sign him jon why do you think we didn't? I have my own theory as to why we didn't, I'm just wondering why you feel we let him pass by.

: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:43 pm  

LovesToSpooge wrote:

If we were perhaps in a position to sign him jon why do you think we didn't? I have my own theory as to why we didn't, I'm just wondering why you feel we let him pass by.

I perhaps think that we were too busy looking for the enforcer, which he is not, I worry that we put all our eggs in one basket with Webb even though it was unlikely he was going to get a visa and when that seemingly failed we had missed the boat on not just Tronc but some other players as well.

Thats my theory anyway.

We all wanted an enforcer but having a player like Tronc at the club who will generate good meters would also have been nice and we could have looked to the enforcer for 2011 once that stone around our neck Fielden is gone.

I think we did not look at the bigger picture and looked to slot the enforcer in at all costs for 2010, rather than looking to secure a meter man and getting the balance right in 2011, which would have been easier had we signed a yard maker for 2010 rather than signing nobody.

: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:01 pm  

I will cry for 10 days if saints sign Luke Bailey. One of the best props in the NRL and a good leader from the front.

: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:04 pm  

jonh wrote:

I perhaps think that we were too busy looking for the enforcer, which he is not, I worry that we put all our eggs in one basket with Webb even though it was unlikely he was going to get a visa and when that seemingly failed we had missed the boat on not just Tronc but some other players as well.

Thats my theory anyway.

We all wanted an enforcer but having a player like Tronc at the club who will generate good meters would also have been nice and we could have looked to the enforcer for 2011 once that stone around our neck Fielden is gone.

I think we did not look at the bigger picture and looked to slot the enforcer in at all costs for 2010, rather than looking to secure a meter man and getting the balance right in 2011, which would have been easier had we signed a yard maker for 2010 rather than signing nobody.

Yeah I would agree with that, Lenegan has previously mentioned that the club lack a network over there in which to spot players who would be suitable for us, now I've no doubt that something is being put together in regards to casting an eye over the NRL however it has come to late for us in the case of Tronc.

I Suppose the enforcer that people talk of is a very difficult position to fill, those types of players are becoming far less common than they once were both here and overseas, and the fact that the players we would class as enforcers usually have somewhat of an aggressive attitude in life which may lead them down the wrong path. This may work against are pursuit of an enforcer because they have done something outside of the game that would stop them receiving a British visa, also Lenegan speaks a lot of finding the right people for Wigan in both playing ability and mental attitude, Lenegan may have found that a lot of the enforcers have somewhat of an attitude problem that may put him off, but should really be kind of expected in that type of player.

It's still my belief that Lenegan is with going with the same squad for 2010 as we have had this year because he plans to use it as a weeding out process, in planning for a big 2011 when a fair bit of money will be available.

odemwingie wrote:

I will cry for 10 days if saints sign Luke Bailey. One of the best props in the NRL and a good leader from the front.

I think I'll be more mad than upset that one of are rivals see's a weakness in there team and sign's a player to correct it, while we suffer from the same problem yet do nothing about it.

rl : Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:04 pm  

Perhaps IL is part of the moral majority.
It worries me that he keeps saying he will not cheat the salary cap.
What does he mean by that?
For most of us the cap can be circumvented by Benefit trusts, image rights, scams & allegedly tales of bonuses in cash. How much of this is true we don't know but if the majority of clubs are using these methods and IL is not then we have had it. We won't win anything, ever!
When we've looked at other teams squads they've had far more quality players than us and we knew DW wouldn't allow us to use the above methods of bypassing the cap.
Comments on other threads about Wire's squad and how they fit them all under £1.65m.
We've needed props for the past four years or more. IL has brought in half a squad but not a single prop which has been our priority for years.
As has been said, if we don't strengthen the squad next year will be another year of disappointment.
No announcement about the coach, no new signings when our rivals are strengthen their squads. So what's the future for Wigan RL then?
After decades of watching Wigan, perhaps now is the time to consider doing something else weekends.

Re: rl : Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:09 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

Perhaps IL is part of the moral majority.
It worries me that he keeps saying he will not cheat the salary cap.
What does he mean by that?
For most of us the cap can be circumvented by Benefit trusts, image rights, scams & allegedly tales of bonuses in cash. How much of this is true we don't know but if the majority of clubs are using these methods and IL is not then we have had it. We won't win anything, ever!
When we've looked at other teams squads they've had far more quality players than us and we knew DW wouldn't allow us to use the above methods of bypassing the cap.
Comments on other threads about Wire's squad and how they fit them all under £1.65m.
We've needed props for the past four years or more. IL has brought in half a squad but not a single prop which has been our priority for years.
As has been said, if we don't strengthen the squad next year will be another year of disappointment.
No announcement about the coach, no new signings when our rivals are strengthen their squads. So what's the future for Wigan RL then?
After decades of watching Wigan, perhaps now is the time to consider doing something else weekends.

The fact we are not that far off a good team shows we do not have to cheat to win things, we have nearly won the challenge cup this year.

Once Fielden, Feka, Bailey and Carmont leave within the next few years we will have so much money we will not know what to do with it. With that money we can buy 2 props for sure and one other player, and all three will be top class.

Re: rl : Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:16 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

The fact we are not that far off a good team shows we do not have to cheat to win things, we have nearly won the challenge cup this year.

Once Fielden, Feka, Bailey and Carmont leave within the next few years we will have so much money we will not know what to do with it. With that money we can buy 2 props for sure and one other player, and all three will be top class.

I've had it in my mind for sometime, call it wishful thinking, that were we to pool the money together from Fielden, Bailey and Feka we could perhaps then invest it in Brent Kite who has signaled that he'd be willing to come to the UK if the right deal came along, as well as investing in LMS from the same funds, that would solve are problems I think.

rl : Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:24 pm  

Can't believe I read that! "We nearly won the Challenge Cup" When was that?
We lost a semi final last Saturday because we were hopeless. A very average Warrington with one Aussie playing his best rugby over here played us off the park. Second half we had a good 20 minutes.
As I said, we've needed props for years yet IL has failed to bring any in.
He said he looked at six and none were right for Wigan. Yeh, right!
As for having spare money, we said that when Betts had 2 years left on his playing contract. How many times was that said about Vialiki?(sp)
Now it's when Fielden goes!
Wigan RL chairmen have been spinning us that one since we moved into the JJB/DW in 1999.
These are excuses for failure, not reasons!