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Warrington led 16-2 in Saturday's Grand Final, but their joy was short-lived as Wigan roared back to win the Super League title and extend the Wire's 58-year wait to be champions

Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:39 pm  
jools wrote:
"let them eat cake" attitude. Now That's laughable


Diddums.
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:30 pm  
Orrell Lad wrote:
Tough shiit. Widnes, Cas and Wakefield's backroom staff need to work harder on their commercials so that if/when they produce the next AF/KC, they have got the £ to keep him.

If another club didn't pick them off, Yawnion would. What's worse?

Simple capitalism yes.

Whilst you are espousing 'simple capitalism', you do realise that without checks and balances (like a salary cap) such a system leads to monopoly don't you? I say again-

Would you be happy playing a round robin against Saints and Leeds ad infinitum?

Even that bastion of traditional capitalism the Premier League tried to have a geographical ban on recruiting youngsters so that a club could only recruit within a 25 mile radius. Even they realised the inherent unfairness of allowance the Man Utds and Chelsea's to do as they please.
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:00 pm  
It may well lead to a monopoly where only a handful of clubs win the top prize. Oh, wait a minute..!

I haven't advocated removal of checks and balances such as the salary cap, so I'm not sure why you've directed that question at me. Your scenario of round robin games with only Saints and Leeds is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion of the marquee player rule.

Interesting to note that Nigel Wood was thrilled the rule got passed and the RFL have wanted it implemented for some time!
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:05 pm  
jools wrote:
I fail to see how this ruling brings up the standard of rugby league.

They turned it around because they had the history, staff and cash, to (cheat) to do so. If Wigan had been bottom half of the table for the previous 15 seasons and won nothing- do you think their ability to "turn it around" would be the same?
"Failure to compete" is an easy phrase to come up with when you've not had to fight to become competitive for years. How much easier is it for Wigan to secure sponsorship money, Wigan to secure players, wigan to secure the best coaching staff, wigan to secure the best marketing staff, Wigan to secure the best back room staff, Wigan to entice the best youngsters to their club and keep them than those you are accusing of "failing to compete" It's not a level playing field so it's not "failure to compete" it's failure to have the same benefits as others in order to compete!!!
If the RFL had gone ahead with their draft system it may have been different.


You're talking as if being a "big club" is a permanent thing. Little clubs can become big, and vice versa, given the right situation, it's by no means a closed shop - just look at league tables over, say, 10 year gaps, to see once small clubs like wire and hudds becoming big and once big clubs like Bradford collapsing.
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:36 pm  
Geoff wrote:
You're talking as if being a "big club" is a permanent thing. Little clubs can become big, and vice versa, given the right situation, it's by no means a closed shop - just look at league tables over, say, 10 year gaps, to see once small clubs like wire and hudds becoming big and once big clubs like Bradford collapsing.

I think that's a very good point. And little clubs can only become big clubs if they still exist. Therefore a case against the free market!!!
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:29 pm  
[quote="jools"]I fail to see how this ruling brings up the standard of rugby league.

Seriously? You don't think that by being able to attract and retain better players the standard of rugby won't improve?

Better players means better rugby. They play better and it's good for young lads to be around them!
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:24 pm  
Aboveusonlypie wrote:
In part yes I do. I am in favour of a salary cap. Actually I think most fair minded people are if they take the off the blinkers of supporting just one club.

However the Marquee Signing rule is really only tinkering with the cap, and as such I'm not against it. I have posted that earlier, maybe you missed it.

I understand your points, but the logical outcome of your position is that smaller clubs overreach themselves, cease to compete and ultimately go out of business. Rugby League can't be run on those principles in the same way that Professional Football can, because there just aren't enough clubs.

Do you want to see Wigan play Leeds, Saints and Wire on a round robin basis throughout the season? Or even worse do you want to see Wigan cast in the role of Glasgow Celtic with no competitors? (Or even worse than that Wigan as Glasgow Rangers?)


We already do. Despite the odd self inflicted disaster when it gets to the business end it is the same suspects competing for the trophies. The salary cap set at the level it is has done nothing to alter that.

Rugby League doesn't exist in isolation and yet has basically had a wage freeze for well over a decade.

That is incompatible with the concept of professional sport because as we have seen once a sport gets some money behind it as RL in OZ has and RU here, players wages take off leaving our players behind The players in the NRL and RU quite rightly expect a fair share of the pie.

Pro-cappers here rarely mention the players livelihoods. The seen to think because Cas and Wakey can't afford a cap bigger than what it is, it is OK for all the players at every club to have their wages held down. Why?

I think the salary cap in the UK is self defeating myself. Here in the UK it is in effect a lowest common denominator. It is set too low so as to accommodate the poorest clubs and it means clubs who could afford to pay the players more can't so there is always a chance the best players will leave but the poorest clubs remain the poorest clubs and least likely to win a trophy. It serves no useful purpose and who knows how many young players don't even bother trying to make a career out of it given the wages for the average player are effectively low.

In Australia it is not a lowest common denominator at all. It is high enough so the players can earn high salaries yet it will prevent one club outspending another.

With the Sky deal all our clubs now have the full £1.8m salary cap paid. They got about £1.1m before IIRC so why not increase the cap to £2.5m? The clubs still have to find the same as they used to, £0.7m. If they can't do that they really have no place in a professional league.

HKR look a better prospect these days not because of the salary cap but because they have been given the money to pay right up to it and they are spending it IMO. Why other clubs still don't want things like the marquee player or the cap raised when they have also just been handed £1.8m on a plate I really don't know.

Sooner or later the cap will have to go up not just by minor tinkering by things like the marquee player rule. It can't stay as it is and RL protect itself never mind compete with the NRL and RU.

For it to go up we need more money in the sport or at least going to the top clubs. The Aussie clubs don't earn their income as such, most of it comes from the TV rights and they don't divide it between 26 clubs either. We should do the same. The SL clubs should share the TV money (cap goes up to £3.2m then I believe) and we should give up on the false idea we can have a 26 team pro league. We can't. We can't afford it.
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:15 pm  
DaveO wrote:
We already do. Despite the odd self inflicted disaster when it gets to the business end it is the same suspects competing for the trophies. The salary cap set at the level it is has done nothing to alter that.

Rugby League doesn't exist in isolation and yet has basically had a wage freeze for well over a decade.

That is incompatible with the concept of professional sport because as we have seen once a sport gets some money behind it as RL in OZ has and RU here, players wages take off leaving our players behind The players in the NRL and RU quite rightly expect a fair share of the pie.

Pro-cappers here rarely mention the players livelihoods. The seen to think because Cas and Wakey can't afford a cap bigger than what it is, it is OK for all the players at every club to have their wages held down. Why?

I think the salary cap in the UK is self defeating myself. Here in the UK it is in effect a lowest common denominator. It is set too low so as to accommodate the poorest clubs and it means clubs who could afford to pay the players more can't so there is always a chance the best players will leave but the poorest clubs remain the poorest clubs and least likely to win a trophy. It serves no useful purpose and who knows how many young players don't even bother trying to make a career out of it given the wages for the average player are effectively low.

In Australia it is not a lowest common denominator at all. It is high enough so the players can earn high salaries yet it will prevent one club outspending another.

With the Sky deal all our clubs now have the full £1.8m salary cap paid. They got about £1.1m before IIRC so why not increase the cap to £2.5m? The clubs still have to find the same as they used to, £0.7m. If they can't do that they really have no place in a professional league.

HKR look a better prospect these days not because of the salary cap but because they have been given the money to pay right up to it and they are spending it IMO. Why other clubs still don't want things like the marquee player or the cap raised when they have also just been handed £1.8m on a plate I really don't know.

Sooner or later the cap will have to go up not just by minor tinkering by things like the marquee player rule. It can't stay as it is and RL protect itself never mind compete with the NRL and RU.

For it to go up we need more money in the sport or at least going to the top clubs. The Aussie clubs don't earn their income as such, most of it comes from the TV rights and they don't divide it between 26 clubs either. We should do the same. The SL clubs should share the TV money (cap goes up to £3.2m then I believe) and we should give up on the false idea we can have a 26 team pro league. We can't. We can't afford it.

The tone of debate on here from many posters (though not necessarily yourself) has been - To hell with the poorer clubs we can do without them, we are being held back by them etc.

Some have even said they don't care if the smaller clubs go out of business they couldn't care less.

We've been here before. I'm not going to rehash this debate. It feels a bit like 'Groundhog Day' :BLAH:
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Re: Marquee Player Rule : Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:12 pm  
Aboveusonlypie wrote:
The tone of debate on here from many posters (though not necessarily yourself) has been - To hell with the poorer clubs we can do without them, we are being held back by them etc.

Some have even said they don't care if the smaller clubs go out of business they couldn't care less.

We've been here before. I'm not going to rehash this debate. It feels a bit like 'Groundhog Day' :BLAH:


I presume you mean by smaller clubs going out of business you mean smaller SL clubs going bust trying to keep pace with richer ones if the salary cap was raised.

I don't think any such club has to go out of business because if the Sky money was allocated as it should be in my view, to the SL clubs, they would be well off and well able to compete.

That said I don't think you should just hand over a few million quid just because a club is currently in the SL. We then get back to licensing and clubs being let into the "SL club" based on off-field criteria.
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