I agree but the point I was making was about Knowles over Smithies. Whether Radley plays in front of Knowles or not, Wane will definitely select Knowles over Smithies. 100%

Hope I didnt spoil your holiday,(knew i would get a reaction).

Enjoy your holiday.

He would pick knowles but Radley would be the first choice.

I think he might put Knowles at prop. He’s done it before in the 2021 All Stars game and with Radley now in the mix, it’ll give him a way of getting both in.



I started this Knowles v Smithies debate. My take on it is that Knowles is class and he’s still above Smithies but I tell you what, he’s come on at an absolute rate of knots Smithies this season and the gap is not that big. He has always been rated as a future star Smithies and after a couple of quiet seasons under Lam, the steps he’s taken forward this season have been huge. Whilst I still think Knowles is the better player, I certainly think Smithies has had the better season. Give me the choice for England though and I’d still go Knowles, much in the same way that I’d go Tomkins over any of Welsby, Lomax or Williams because he’s proven his class over and over again and will step up when needed.

I agree that Smithies has come on loads and to be fair to him he is a couple of years younger than Knowles. The gap between them is now as close as we are to catching you after your CC win





On a separate note though just because Tomkins has the experience doesn’t mean Welsby won’t perform as well. He’s got an X factor about him that few have and you made a great point about him being cocky. That makes him fearless and a “why should we fear the opposition” type of attitude. You made the same point with Newman and I agree.



Interestingly enough Kev Brown actually said this week that he rates Welsby as the best player in the comp and better than Jai Field…



That’s a whole other debate so I thought I’d chuck that grenade in before I go. It’s happy hour in half an hour and I’m about to go back in the pool so I’m done with this today. Speak soon

If Kev Brown said it we may as well not start the debate





To basically sum up a couple of Saints fans viewpoints on this-



Welsby has been better in the league than Tomkins this season, so Welsby plays.



Smithies has been better than Knowles in the league this season, so Knowles plays.



I think I’ve covered it, now enjoy the beer and the sun

Dont forget no wigan player would get in the Saints team maybe Farrell on the bench.

Welsby fullback, Tomkins & Lomax in the halves (Williams as back up)…absolute no brainer for me.



Agree with someone else’s suggestion of Knowles for one of the 4 prop spots. The back row at international level doesn’t suit what Knowles does (as good at it as he is)…personally I see it as low error high stats type players that will go best. Faz & Whitehead, and Radley. Bateman & McMeeken will do well to get in before those three.

I think Marshy should be given a chance he is having a great season.

Whitehead 100% should be picked.

Not seen anything of Whitehead this season, is he still playing well? There is some good competition in there with him, Bateman, Faz, Batchelor and McMeekan.

4 years younger actually.

Whitehead is the captain of Raiders,just come back against Warriors (Knee infection) but yes he is playing well.

For me- Bateman,Faz or Whitehead then Batchelor maybe Mcmeekan.

He’s always been very good for England has Whitehead, so I’d expect him to make the 17. One thing I can’t see Wane doing is to pick his side based on getting every possible NRL player in and then fill in the gaps, as Wayne Bennett seemed to do. That gives somebody like Faz or Batchelor a decent shout and the same with players like Oledzki or Lees, who I could see him having ahead of Tom Burgess (not sure Burgess is mobile enough for Wane).

Oledzki is a good shout tough as teak.

I wouldnt, like you say just pick the NRL players I would hope he picks the best players as he sees fit.

Some fans I am sure will be upset at his inclusions but he is the coach.

Batchelor will have to improve his defence for Wane to pick him, he has missed more tackles than any other player in SL.

And as good if not better this season-so far

I noticed that but I wouldn’t be hugely worried. I again go back to how they defend. It’s all about pressure and people getting off the line and it leads to plenty of missed tackles across the board but if the first man doesn’t get you, the second does. The Saints side has the best defence in the league by a mile, with them conceding nearly 100 points less than the next best and nearly 170 points less than us. Guys like Knowles and Batchelor play a massive part in that regardless of what the missed tackles column says.

Missed tackles against international sides would cost games.

We need players that do not miss that many tackles.

How Wane will view this is any bodies guess,but I for one trust him at least get the players focused and chomping at the bit so to speak.

I think you may be missing the point, which is that for guys like Knowes and Batchelor who lead our line speed, their job is to close down and strangle play. That means flying off the line. Matty Lees is another obvious example of that for us.



If you think any of them are poor defenders whose missed tackles cost games you might need to watch a little more closely.



We have the best defence by a mile but as a team are third in the league for missed tackles. That tells you something about the nature of those “missed” tackles. The lads with the most missed tackles are mostly our best defenders.

I did not miss the point I think you did,as do you think if they missed as many tackles against Australia or Kiwis there wouldnt be repercussions it is naive on your part to say a Superleague teams defence is the same as a international defence.

Not saying they would not adjust to the intermational game but rushing out and missing a tackle is not good enough.

Yep, them lot miss tackles after 3metres but cause so much disruption the likes of Roby etc can complete the tackle after 5metres.



Rather than most teams who make first contact after about 5/6/7metres

However they are also in the top three for penalties conceded, that would be a major concern against the "big" teams?



Also Batchelor is nowhere near the amount of tackles made or metres made than those of Farrell

One reason why Faz is a better allround player than than either of those players.

I’d have Faz all day long anyway (as long as he’s used correctly). Batchelor is having a really good season but could you imagine Faz in that Saints side, feeding off the back of the physical stress they put other teams through? He would have a field day with his fitness levels and eye for a gap.



I do think the missed tackles and penalty stats for Saints forwards are a bi-product of the way in which they defend. It’s totally different to how we go about things. It’s if they’ll be able to adjust to how Wane will set things up that will decide if Batchelor and Knowles can make a big impact in the World Cup (if Batchelor makes the squad because I don’t think it’s a given).

I would be surprised if he does. He is a workmanlike forward but he is not an international player.

Doesn’t sound like the missed tackles Colin will be getting a rest today. Mad scoreline so far.