Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:53 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

They will because money talks and Union has enough to throw around.

I just can't for the life of me think why they went for a guy with the physical attributes and skills of Sam Burgess because he's league through and through.

If I were them I'd be targeting big, skilful back with good pace who can exploit what little space there is. Guys like Ryan Hall, Joe Burgess and Kallum Watkins would settle comfortably.

I pray they don't mind.

Sam Burgess, won the GF and MOM in the GF in the NRL, massive achievement. By his own comments he couldn't continue to play RL in the NRL as it would cut his career short due to the demands of the sport.
Additionally Sam was also quoted that he missed England and wanted to spend some more time in his home country.

So along comes Andy Faz (ironically after the Eng RL game at Wembley) offering him a massive deal (he's now the highest paid RU player in England) a chance to achieve something in another sport, play in front of 80k for his country and give his body a rest playing a much less demanding sport. It's a no-brainer.

Rumours of him going to Leeds or back to the NRL? Firstly he'd have to take a paycut, then he'd have the life-long notoriety of being a RL-RU convert flop with a national legacy of being a failure, and of course go back to the sport which game by game smashes up his body.

The RUWC criticism will blow over, it was too soon to put Sam into the team, maybe even the squad, if he wasn't such a name he would have been developed at a more considerate pace, similar to Henry Slade. Overtime Sam will rebuild his reputation in Union, be excepted as one of their own and probably once again feature as a 6/7/8 in an England RU shirt.

Sam is still a young man with lots of options, of course I'd love to see him back in league for many reasons, I'd cheer like made if he turned up, even as a spectator at the GF, but sadly I can't see it.

With the money, fame and care union players have over league, I can see many others making the switch.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:35 am  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Sam Burgess, won the GF and MOM in the GF in the NRL, massive achievement. By his own comments he couldn't continue to play RL in the NRL as it would cut his career short due to the demands of the sport.
Additionally Sam was also quoted that he missed England and wanted to spend some more time in his home country.

So along comes Andy Faz (ironically after the Eng RL game at Wembley) offering him a massive deal (he's now the highest paid RU player in England) a chance to achieve something in another sport, play in front of 80k for his country and give his body a rest playing a much less demanding sport. It's a no-brainer.

Rumours of him going to Leeds or back to the NRL? Firstly he'd have to take a paycut, then he'd have the life-long notoriety of being a RL-RU convert flop with a national legacy of being a failure, and of course go back to the sport which game by game smashes up his body.

The RUWC criticism will blow over, it was too soon to put Sam into the team, maybe even the squad, if he wasn't such a name he would have been developed at a more considerate pace, similar to Henry Slade. Overtime Sam will rebuild his reputation in Union, be excepted as one of their own and probably once again feature as a 6/7/8 in an England RU shirt.

Sam is still a young man with lots of options, of course I'd love to see him back in league for many reasons, I'd cheer like made if he turned up, even as a spectator at the GF, but sadly I can't see it.

With the money, fame and care union players have over league, I can see many others making the switch.

But we should also consider the guy's personal pride. He went from having achieved the near impossible - a Brit earning hero status in Aus, to copping the blame for a bunch of English Rugby Union failures so inept that none of them would even get near the Wakefield first team. If he thought he was coming to Union for a rest, he's mistaken. Easy game maybe, but the surly Union scribes have made it clear that his name will always be mud as far as they are concerned. There seems to be a kind of schizophrenia in Union, where one half of the brain wants to see League stars parachuted in to save them, and the other half deeply resents these ex-League stars earning big money. Every time an opportunity comes along to 'prove' that League players aren't as good as everyone says, they take it.

Sam is surely enough of a realist to know that this will be his lot from now on if he stays in Union. Whatever he does, he won't be good enough. The Grand Final victory will soon fade in the memory and seem like it happened a long time ago. If he wants to keep revisiting that kind of glory and adulation - which has got to be what these guys thrive on - he must surely know that he has to return to League.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:16 am  

Cruncher wrote:

But we should also consider the guy's personal pride. He went from having achieved the near impossible - a Brit earning hero status in Aus, to copping the blame for a bunch of English Rugby Union failures so inept that none of them would even get near the Wakefield first team. If he thought he was coming to Union for a rest, he's mistaken. Easy game maybe, but the surly Union scribes have made it clear that his name will always be mud as far as they are concerned. There seems to be a kind of schizophrenia in Union, where one half of the brain wants to see League stars parachuted in to save them, and the other half deeply resents these ex-League stars earning big money. Every time an opportunity comes along to 'prove' that League players aren't as good as everyone says, they take it.

Sam is surely enough of a realist to know that this will be his lot from now on if he stays in Union. Whatever he does, he won't be good enough. The Grand Final victory will soon fade in the memory and seem like it happened a long time ago. If he wants to keep revisiting that kind of glory and adulation - which has got to be what these guys thrive on - he must surely know that he has to return to League.

Documenting some of your comments:

Personal pride: surely staying and working to become a start in the sport would see Sam put an end to negative thoughts about him.
Achieving the impossible: He's ticked most boxes in RL, but few in RU. More to achieve in Union for him.
Name always be mud: Highly unlikely, the press are very fickle. He has the character to turn things around given time and development in the game.
Sam's lot in Union: Again, who's to say he'll never feature again in an England RU shirt? No one. Clive Woodward stated only this week that Sam can still be England's star man given time. Jury is certainly still out on his future.

This isn't considering the pay drop he'd have to take, label of being a RU failure and missed opportunity to rectify his name in England (let's face it the exposure RU has nationally is far more impressive than League) and missed opportunity to play for his country in front of 80K, could he do this in league? Sadly no.

I think League is a million times better than Union, but I'm aware of the realities of the codes. Sam could take up the remaining 2 years on his contract to correct things in RU earning a fortune (not forgetting the endorsements he'll achieve in union-Canterbury etc) and return to RL at 28/29.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:54 am  

Cherry_Warrior wrote:

I think this is a certainty now. After what has happened to Sam, being lambasted in the media and taking the blame for the dross served up this should be a big red danger signal to other RL players. Not every move is a fairy tale like Robinson, Ashton and Farrell etc.

Sam Burgess was the worlds most recognised RL player when he left after that epic NRL Grand Final and hopefully the next time Yawnion are desperate for a bit of class they should try and find one from their own code for a change.

I think the more likely scenario is that the drain of our resources will continue. It's easy to get your head around RU seeing, say, Joel's Wembley try and thinking "let's get him". Hopefully, Burgess' experience may give our star players pause for thought but the targeting of our players is taking place not just at the very top but across the entire spectrum of our League. What with all the talk about Sarginson (fringe international) to Bath along with this Forsyth kid (prospect) plus Josh Jones (solid SL standard) to Exeter Chiefs then Sinfield's (fading legend) move to Carnegie I can't see a single sector of our talent that isn't under their microscope, sadly.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:03 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

I think the more likely scenario is that the drain of our resources will continue. It's easy to get your head around RU seeing, say, Joel's Wembley try and thinking "let's get him". Hopefully, Burgess' experience may give our star players pause for thought but the targeting of our players is taking place not just at the very top but across the entire spectrum of our League. What with all the talk about Sarginson (fringe international) to Bath along with this Forsyth kid (prospect) plus Josh Jones (solid SL standard) to Exeter Chiefs then Sinfield's (fading legend) move to Carnegie I can't see a single sector of our talent that isn't under their microscope, sadly.

For mine it also says bad things about the ability and commitment of RU to developing it's own talent. It is taking the easy route, to buy in talent from RL.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:31 pm  

TOMCAT wrote:

For mine it also says bad things about the ability and commitment of RU to developing it's own talent. It is taking the easy route, to buy in talent from RL.

How many league players do they include in relation to their own RU players? The percentage is very low.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:18 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

I heard about this a while back. Supposedly the youth team were told to bring an overnight bag etc to training, as a bonding session the team camped on the training pitch. At the start of the night 'by surprise' Wane was walking his dogs nearby, he called over Forsyth and had a rant at him about being offered a deal with Bath. At this stage he hadn't signed for Bath but had received 2 offers, one from Wigan and a much better offer from Bath.

Without hearing Liam out Wane told him he'd been disrespectful and was done at Wigan. Liam returned to camp, picked up his belongings and left. The offer from Wigan was withdrawn leaving Liam no other option but to sign for Bath.

I heard it slightly differently in that Forsyth had already signed for Bath but not told Wigan. Somehow Wane found out and at that point told Forsyth to leave.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 4:45 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I heard it slightly differently in that Forsyth had already signed for Bath but not told Wigan. Somehow Wane found out and at that point told Forsyth to leave.

Would surely make more sense!

Hardly the lads fault if he was 'offered' a contract elsewhere so it makes little sense that Wane would go sick at that.

Re: Sam Burgess : Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:11 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

How many league players do they include in relation to their own RU players? The percentage is very low.

But with the huge number of clubs through out England and the cash they have, they shouldn't need to "convert" RL players (and for that matter coaches.

Re: Sam Burgess : Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:48 pm  

Made me giggle - but then I'm easily amused