[DaveO]

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:25 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

This list of concerns is pretty well the same list of concerns I gave you when you were demanding to know why the club hadn't sorted something out quickly.

The decision I expected from the club was whether or not he had a future at Wigan, not what that future (if it was at Wigan) was going to be. I don't see why they needed to dot the i's and cross the t's on a contract before stating their intention one way or the other.

I said myself that it was difficult to make a firm decision on this sort of thing when there are so many potential problems, and when the comeback date is still two years in the future. Presumably the club have now taken the necessary time to look at the situation from every angle and take all the required legal and medical advice, and I'm guessing that whatever agreement they reach with Hock will contain the sorts of provisos that IL has put into other recent contracts. It won't be anything like as simple as "Hock has been rewarded with a five-year deal".

I agree it is difficult to make firm decisions on this sort of thing when the comeback is so far in the future which is why I am surprised the rumour being discussed is a five year deal being offered now.

Whatever your moral reservations about hiring someone who got fired for being on drugs - which you're perfectly entitled to hold - I feel that Hock signing for Saints or Warrington (because they were quicker to forgive him than we were, or, more likely, because they offered him better terms) would create a storm of annoyance among Wigan fans, not just on this board but among Wigan fans far and wide.

I am sure it would create a storm but had they sacked him and he ended up at Warrington or Saints could you really say the club had done the wrong thing? I have always been in two minds about the club offering him a new deal because on the one hand he will have served his ban but on the other I am not sure what sort of message it sends out to re-employ him but now we are discussing a five year deal I think that is s completely different kettle of fish. As I said we only have one player on such a deal and it just seems odd to me that the club would give a player banned for drugs such a long contract even if it is 1 + 4 as an option.

It makes it look like the club don't care about the moral side of it at all IMO and have always thought certain other clubs would have simply sacked him outright and we would have been praising them for such a zero tolerance approach but when one of our star players does it....

I haven't seen the deal yet, if indeed it exists, but I'd sooner we got Hock back than he went somewhere else, and that really is the bottom line.

I have never thought stopping him playing for someone else should be any motivation for signing him up again. He is a very good player but not indispensable.

Dave

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:33 pm  

DaveO wrote:

snip
Dave

So to summarize: "Unless the club is run exactly along the lines I dictate, I'm going to moan about it!"

I can't believe that even you, Dave, could complain about the club not sorting the Hock situation out and then, when they do, that they sorted it out too completely! The mind boggles.

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:42 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

I never quite get it when people compare Hock to say a Peacock or a Morley in terms of him moving from second row to prop. IMO he's never been a second rower like either of those 2 were in that he doesn't put in the defensive graft either of those 2 do and he's more of an impact ball player then those 2 were in the position. They were top candidates to move upto prop from second row because they did alot of the things props do from that position.

Hock would really have to up his defensive workrate imo if he ever wanted to move up into that position. He's capable of doing that especially if his ban has given him a kick up the backside but i don't see him as a natural progresser to prop forward.

Mossop on the other hand.......

I agree with what you say there

Mossop will make a brilliant prop in a few years

Hock could make a decent impact prop though, bringing him off the bench with a trimmed down Feka could be devastating

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:52 pm  

DaveO wrote:

I have never thought stopping him playing for someone else should be any motivation for signing him up again. He is a very good player but not indispensable.
Dave

Fair enough if that's your honest opinion. But I have to tell you, Dave, the potential for Wigan RL to be lambasted by its own fans is truly enormous. I've been a long term supporter, but I never realised how quickly some people will turn against the club - often for trifling little things - until I came online. Whether Wigan regard Gareth Hock as indispensible or not may play second fiddle to the furore it would cause among fans if they allowed him to sign for another club and then had to suffer at his hands in major fixtures.

Sean Long was sacked on moral grounds. How many Wigan fans remembered that when he went on to lead our most bitter rival into a period of greatness, which often was at our expense?

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:54 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

Whatever your moral reservations about hiring someone who got fired for being on drugs - which you're perfectly entitled to hold - I feel that Hock signing for Saints or Warrington (because they were quicker to forgive him than we were, or, more likely, because they offered him better terms) would create a storm of annoyance among Wigan fans, not just on this board but among Wigan fans far and wide.

I personally wouldn't let Hock anywhere near the club again, not because of any particular moral issues on drugs, but because he's shat on the club - twice.

1. For being thick as pig shite and disrupting the club by getting himself banned for two years because he couldn't say no to his mates, who didn't have as much to lose as he did.

2. For going to the papers to sell his story days after the club said they and he wouldn't be making any further comment until UK Sport had finished the process - a certain scrum half was rightly kicked out the club for blabbing to the same paper about the club a few years ago.

It's time the club had a backbone on this issue and sent a message out that nobody fecks the club over like he did and gets away with it. If he signs for someone else so be it, he hasn't treated them with the disrespect he has to the club and its supporters.

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:58 pm  

Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:

I personally wouldn't let Hock anywhere near the club again, not because of any particular moral issues on drugs, but because he's shat on the club - twice.

1. For being thick as pig shite and disrupting the club by getting himself banned for two years because he couldn't say no to his mates, who didn't have as much to lose as he did.

2. For going to the papers to sell his story days after the club said they and he wouldn't be making any further comment until UK Sport had finished the process - a certain scrum half was rightly kicked out the club for blabbing to the same paper about the club a few years ago.

It's time the club had a backbone on this issue and sent a message out that nobody fecks the club over like he did and gets away with it. If he signs for someone else so be it, he hasn't treated them with the disrespect he has to the club and its supporters.

I suspect you may be in the minority.

[Wigan6/Leeds1 Andy]

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:00 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I suspect you may be in the minority.

Thank God for that!

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:06 pm  

Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:

Thank God for that!

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:32 pm  

LovesToSpooge wrote: Question for jonh. Bradford have just signed Geoff Evans as head of strength and conditioning, and I'm just wondering with your knowledge in this area whether you've ever heard of the guy. Reading the link below he does seem to have a pretty good resume. http://www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=16225 In truth never heard of him, but i do know they needed to replace there last one, who was all muscle no brain and like us in my opinion a major part of there failings. Gone are the days when a club can go with a conditioning coach with no real interest or background in Sports Science. Knowledge is not everything they have to be able to communicate that at a level accepted by the players, knowledge mixed with a good grasp on the art of coaching and you will not go far wrong as if you do the research there are very few secrets in the game. Regards Geoff Evans although i have know knowledge of him he has worked at a good few clubs across different sports so the fact he has cross sport demand would lead me to conclude he certainly is no mug.

LovesToSpooge wrote: Question for jonh. Bradford have just signed Geoff Evans as head of strength and conditioning, and I'm just wondering with your knowledge in this area whether you've ever heard of the guy. Reading the link below he does seem to have a pretty good resume. http://www.superleague.co.uk/article.php?id=16225 In truth never heard of him, but i do know they needed to replace there last one, who was all muscle no brain and like us in my opinion a major part of there failings. Gone are the days when a club can go with a conditioning coach with no real interest or background in Sports Science. Knowledge is not everything they have to be able to communicate that at a level accepted by the players, knowledge mixed with a good grasp on the art of coaching and you will not go far wrong as if you do the research there are very few secrets in the game. Regards Geoff Evans although i have know knowledge of him he has worked at a good few clubs across different sports so the fact he has cross sport demand would lead me to conclude he certainly is no mug.

Re: Rumours and signings 2010 v1 : Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:56 pm  

Wigan/Leeds Andy wrote:

I personally wouldn't let Hock anywhere near the club again, not because of any particular moral issues on drugs, but because he's shat on the club - twice.

1. For being thick as pig shite and disrupting the club by getting himself banned for two years because he couldn't say no to his mates, who didn't have as much to lose as he did.

2. For going to the papers to sell his story days after the club said they and he wouldn't be making any further comment until UK Sport had finished the process - a certain scrum half was rightly kicked out the club for blabbing to the same paper about the club a few years ago.

It's time the club had a backbone on this issue and sent a message out that nobody fecks the club over like he did and gets away with it. If he signs for someone else so be it, he hasn't treated them with the disrespect he has to the club and its supporters.

The best post I have read on this board for years.

If that makes me in the minority too then I fear for the majority.