Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:06 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

Few murmurs on the Hull board that Taylor going this year might not be as much of a done deal as we may have thought. Sounds like they're not willing to pay a fee so he won't go until his contract is up in 2016. Hope this is true and he can somehow be pursuaded to stay long term!

and lineham coming t'other way

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:23 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

In fairness though those players are from a few different clubs and their departures cover a large amount of years. We can probably name close to that amount that's been picked off by a mixture of Superleague, Union and NRL teams in just the last three years or so.

We have an issue with our players leaving the club, there's no two ways about it. Other clubs are managing to retain their 'best' players and we aren't doing that at all times. Some of the lads you mention above as well certainly weren't their clubs best players.

Really we've lost Sam Tomkins and Mossop to the NRL and Joel Tomkins to Union, who's now come back after less than 3 years. The others were either antipodeans who've returned to the NRL or players who have received better offers from SL teams. Graham and Eastmond were 2 of Saints best players, and they could have easily lost Roby if he'd fancied the move to Oz.

There will always be rumours about England's top talent, like there has been over the last couple of years over Charnley, Briscoe, Hall and Roby to name just a few. The number one deciding factor of whether a player moves or not is if the player themselves wants to (and obviously if they can find a club to move to). Obviously I would like an excellent set of youngsters come through and all see out 10 years+ at Wigan, but players are going to get their heads turned by either a higher level of competition and better wages in the NRL or a bigger international profile and better wages in RU.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:39 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

Really we've lost Sam Tomkins and Mossop to the NRL and Joel Tomkins to Union, who's now come back after less than 3 years. The others were either antipodeans who've returned to the NRL or players who have received better offers from SL teams. Graham and Eastmond were 2 of Saints best players, and they could have easily lost Roby if he'd fancied the move to Oz.

There will always be rumours about England's top talent, like there has been over the last couple of years over Charnley, Briscoe, Hall and Roby to name just a few. The number one deciding factor of whether a player moves or not is if the player themselves wants to (and obviously if they can find a club to move to). Obviously I would like an excellent set of youngsters come through and all see out 10 years+ at Wigan, but players are going to get their heads turned by either a higher level of competition and better wages in the NRL or a bigger international profile and better wages in RU.

We also have an issue with losing players to other superleague clubs as well having lost Hansen and now Goulding and probably Taylor who are three players I'd still like in our squad. We have also lost Green and whilst you always accept it because he's from overseas clubs like Leeds and Wire have managed to hold on to sought after Aussies players like Delaney and Joel Monaghan.

I full agree that you're going to lose the odd one, that's only natural but you can't lose the amount of players we have without you having an issue. To lose them to Union/NRL is a nuisance but understandable but as the biggest club in the UK and current double holders I don't expect to be losing lads to Hull and Salford especially when we must have salary cap space lying around from those departures to the NRL.

When Goulding goes next year we'll have about 2 or 3 players left from our Grand Final team of 2010 and maybe 3 or 4 from the CC win of 2011. That's scary and in a couple of years we'll be saying similar about the double winning team of 2013. We've proved that we can cope with a large turnover of players once from 2010-2013 for example but that won't continue to be the case I'm afraid especially if the juniors start getting picked off as rumoured (with moves in place for Sutton and possibly Burgess as well as rumoured interest in Hampshire).

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:12 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

We also have an issue with losing players to other superleague clubs as well having lost Hansen and now Goulding and probably Taylor who are three players I'd still like in our squad. We have also lost Green and whilst you always accept it because he's from overseas clubs like Leeds and Wire have managed to hold on to sought after Aussies players like Delaney and Joel Monaghan.

I full agree that you're going to lose the odd one, that's only natural but you can't lose the amount of players we have without you having an issue. To lose them to Union/NRL is a nuisance but understandable but as the biggest club in the UK and current double holders I don't expect to be losing lads to Hull and Salford especially when we must have salary cap space lying around from those departures to the NRL.

When Goulding goes next year we'll have about 2 or 3 players left from our Grand Final team of 2010 and maybe 3 or 4 from the CC win of 2011. That's scary and in a couple of years we'll be saying similar about the double winning team of 2013. We've proved that we can cope with a large turnover of players once from 2010-2013 for example but that won't continue to be the case I'm afraid especially if the juniors start getting picked off as rumoured (with moves in place for Sutton and possibly Burgess as well as rumoured interest in Hampshire).

I agree, I just think when you pick the bones of this situation it is nowhere near as bad as some make out. For every Pat Richards or Joel Monaghan who've stayed at a SL club for many years there's been a Greg Eastwood or Ryan Hoffman who've looked for the first ticket back as soon as they've got a sniff of an offer back home. Some players like Pat, Tommy and Green have given a good few years of service playing over here and want another crack at proving themselves in the NRL.

I didn't want to lose Hansen and I don't want us to lose Taylor but the former got a ridiculous offer to go to Salford and the latter seems to have personal reasons for wanting to move back to his home town. The same with Goulding, he's shown some patchy form this year (though some would have you believe we're losing Mark Gasnier in his prime) and it's been decided that we have better options and to use his salary elsewhere. Only time will tell if that's the correct decision or not. A similar decision was probably made with Chris Tuson.

Look at the 2010 squad: Carmont, Coley, Fielden, Riddell, Deacon, Prescott are long retired and Feka and Gleeson are well past their best. It was a fairly ageing squad. Only Tomkins, Hansen and Leuluai would be anywhere near our first team squad 4 years later.

If all of a sudden we see a genuine exodus of a lot of our young British players then we can start to worry, but I honestly don't think that is the case right now. I just take issue with people making out it's only happening to us.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:48 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

We also have an issue with losing players to other superleague clubs as well having lost Hansen and now Goulding and probably Taylor who are three players I'd still like in our squad. We have also lost Green and whilst you always accept it because he's from overseas clubs like Leeds and Wire have managed to hold on to sought after Aussies players like Delaney and Joel Monaghan.

I full agree that you're going to lose the odd one, that's only natural but you can't lose the amount of players we have without you having an issue. To lose them to Union/NRL is a nuisance but understandable but as the biggest club in the UK and current double holders I don't expect to be losing lads to Hull and Salford especially when we must have salary cap space lying around from those departures to the NRL.

When Goulding goes next year we'll have about 2 or 3 players left from our Grand Final team of 2010 and maybe 3 or 4 from the CC win of 2011. That's scary and in a couple of years we'll be saying similar about the double winning team of 2013. We've proved that we can cope with a large turnover of players once from 2010-2013 for example but that won't continue to be the case I'm afraid especially if the juniors start getting picked off as rumoured (with moves in place for Sutton and possibly Burgess as well as rumoured interest in Hampshire).

The thing is with the new TV deal every Super League club will now be spending up to the cap too. A £70,000 a year player at Wigan will be able to go to Salford, Hull KR, Hull FC etc and be one of their marquee players and get £100,000+. This will certainly have more of an impact on us than just what we have seen in previous years and will mean we wont just be losing our top stars but players across the board.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:11 pm  

As stated by other posters, my issue isn't with people like Sam or Joel looking for a new challenge/big pay day, it's the 19 year old kids being cherry picked before they've done anything at the club.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:52 pm  

P-J wrote:

As stated by other posters, my issue isn't with people like Sam or Joel looking for a new challenge/big pay day, it's the 19 year old kids being cherry picked before they've done anything at the club.

The 2 lads who left our academy last year to sign for NZ are now back with us. Daniel Smith is now at Wakey also... Who's to say Burgess Sutton or Burgess won't be back with you in 2 years, or even less.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:09 pm  

Charlie Sheen wrote:

The 2 lads who left our academy last year to sign for NZ are now back with us. Daniel Smith is now at Wakey also... Who's to say Burgess Sutton or Burgess won't be back with you in 2 years, or even less.

Thats the worst possible scenario IMO

You lose a good young player to OZ then he comes back in 2 years. Lets be honest the only reason he would be back in 2 years is because he has flopped, or not progressed as expected.

Then we end up with an ex potential world class young starlet, whose confidence is in tatters.

Personally i would prefer them to stay

If they do go however, i would hope not the see them back for a good few years.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:24 pm  

tugglesf78 wrote:

Thats the worst possible scenario IMO

You lose a good young player to OZ then he comes back in 2 years. Lets be honest the only reason he would be back in 2 years is because he has flopped, or not progressed as expected.

Then we end up with an ex potential world class young starlet, whose confidence is in tatters.

Personally i would prefer them to stay

If they do go however, i would hope not the see them back for a good few years.

Or progressed perfectly fine on the rugby side of things but didn't enjoy being thousands of miles from home at such a young age, just a thought?

Recently we've lost Mark Flanagan and Matty Russell to the NRL before they have estblished themselves as first team regulars for Wigan, they have subsequently come back to the SL after a year or two but to other clubs, have we missed either of them?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:13 pm  

Whitbread wrote:

The thing is with the new TV deal every Super League club will now be spending up to the cap too. A £70,000 a year player at Wigan will be able to go to Salford, Hull KR, Hull FC etc and be one of their marquee players and get £100,000+. This will certainly have more of an impact on us than just what we have seen in previous years and will mean we wont just be losing our top stars but players across the board.

This is right and will have a lot of implications for Wigan as average/good players will get star money elsewhere. We have already seen it with Hansen and Goulding and will probably see it again as other players come off contract. It should make for a much better Super League and in theory there is no reason why any club couldnt be as good as a Wigan or Leeds or pay the same money to players.