Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:05 am  

Just to be 'devil's advocate' for a moment. Surely if Wigan can sign someone who is better than what they already have then they should seriously think of doing so. Hampshire, Powell and Williams have bags of potential and MAY become great players, but it isn't a given. In fact at the moment they are being given plenty of opportunities, and quite right too, but aren't exactly setting the world alight.

For me, Scott Dureau (if fit) for example, is a class act. Far better than anything we have at half back. So is Terry Campese (again if fit).

The constant refrain about 'the future' gets wearying. It's NOW that matters. Let the future take care of itself. If any of our youngsters are good enough they'll force their way in. It's a competetive sport and we can't afford to pass on better players just because we have youngsters (who are cheap by the way) who MAY become good players.

As I say - just an alternative view.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:28 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Just to be 'devil's advocate' for a moment. Surely if Wigan can sign someone who is better than what they already have then they should seriously think of doing so. Hampshire, Powell and Williams have bags of potential and MAY become great players, but it isn't a given. In fact at the moment they are being given plenty of opportunities, and quite right too, but aren't exactly setting the world alight.

For me, Scott Dureau (if fit) for example, is a class act. Far better than anything we have at half back. So is Terry Campese (again if fit).

The constant refrain about 'the future' gets wearying. It's NOW that matters. Let the future take care of itself. If any of our youngsters are good enough they'll force their way in. It's a competetive sport and we can't afford to pass on better players just because we have youngsters (who are cheap by the way) who MAY become good players.

As I say - just an alternative view.

Hampshire has been given plenty of opportunities and has hardly set the world alight? He has only started in four games this season and has scored 3 tries and 8 goals in them, plus nearly scoring the try of the season against Salford but for putting slightly too much power on his kick. Not to mention last season when he caused plenty of teams problems, including a wonder performance against Saints. What more do you want him to do to earn a first team shirt?

As for the constant refrain of 'the future' getting wearying - Not sure if you have noticed but that approach has seen us win two SL trophies and two challenge cups within four seasons. In the past we used to gear ourselves towards the short term by throwing massive bucks at the likes of Andy Farrell and Trent Barrett at the expense of having good players around them and we fluked a solitary challenge cup in eleven seasons. Meanwhile god knows how many talented youngsters were left to go to lower clubs where they didn't develop into the players they could have become.

What we need is to plan for the future whilst ensuring we always have a competitive team. We're getting it spot on IMO, and should be giving one of Hampshire/Williams/Powell a crack at the 6 shirt next year

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:02 am  

Grimmy wrote:

What we need is to plan for the future whilst ensuring we always have a competitive team. We're getting it spot on IMO, and should be giving one of Hampshire/Williams/Powell a crack at the 6 shirt next year

Biggest load of BS in a post I've seen in a while. How are we getting it spot on? This season we are significantly weaker than last year and unless someone with experience comes in next season we'll be even weaker.

You only have to look at our team with and without Green to see what difference having an experienced MAN makes to us. I worry for us if Powell or Williams get the 6 gig next year because they aren't ready.

Can't see how letting experienced players like Sam, Mossop or Hansen go is getting it right as all of the above would walk straight into our 13 tonight. Getting it right is keeping the above and then letting guys like Richards, Carmont and Lima leave and SLOWLY replacing them with the best youngsters we have or are out there like Taylor.

We should have been looking at stuff like Sam to 6 next season with Hampshire moving in at 1. Instead we are potentially looking at two inexperienced guys coming in at both 1 & 6 both of which have serious question marks over them. That's not good enough for your pivots. That's not good enough for Wigan and it's certainly not getting it spot on.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:43 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Biggest load of BS in a post I've seen in a while. How are we getting it spot on? This season we are significantly weaker than last year and unless someone with experience comes in next season we'll be even weaker.

You only have to look at our team with and without Green to see what difference having an experienced MAN makes to us. I worry for us if Powell or Williams get the 6 gig next year because they aren't ready.

Can't see how letting experienced players like Sam, Mossop or Hansen go is getting it right as all of the above would walk straight into our 13 tonight. Getting it right is keeping the above and then letting guys like Richards, Carmont and Lima leave and SLOWLY replacing them with the best youngsters we have or are out there like Taylor.

We should have been looking at stuff like Sam to 6 next season with Hampshire moving in at 1. Instead we are potentially looking at two inexperienced guys coming in at both 1 & 6 both of which have serious question marks over them. That's not good enough for your pivots. That's not good enough for Wigan and it's certainly not getting it spot on.

Don't really get this argument tbh. Every time someone leaves the club SW and the coaching staff need to decide whether they need to recruit a replacement or promote from within. Finch and Leuluai left in 2012 so Smith and Green were brought in because there was no one ready to step up from the juniors. Last season when Sam left we brought in Bowen because the likes of Hampshire weren't ready to play SL every week. The only time I think we got it wrong was not bringing someone in to replace Hansen in the last pre season.

If SW thinks Sam Powell is ready to replace Green then there's no point bringing someone in and we can concentrate on recruiting in areas we need more. You can't buy for the sake of buying when there's a salary cap in place.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:54 am  

Not one to put 2 and 2 together and get 5 but I saw Joel Tomkins driving away from the training ground just before 11am this morning. I know it was rumoured we were trying to bring him back and I for one hope we do!!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:01 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

Don't really get this argument tbh. Every time someone leaves the club SW and the coaching staff need to decide whether they need to recruit a replacement or promote from within. Finch and Leuluai left in 2012 so Smith and Green were brought in because there was no one ready to step up from the juniors. Last season when Sam left we brought in Bowen because the likes of Hampshire weren't ready to play SL every week. The only time I think we got it wrong was not bringing someone in to replace Hansen in the last pre season.

If SW thinks Sam Powell is ready to replace Green then there's no point bringing someone in and we can concentrate on recruiting in areas we need more. You can't buy for the sake of buying when there's a salary cap in place.

People will always leave but if someone is under contract, imo, they should be kept as it allows for long term planning.

It's not the sake of buying its the sake of being competitive. We've got far too many kids in Our side imo and next season I don't want to see two inexperienced pivots at 6 & 1. It's simply not good enough for a team like Wigan.

Every year Wigan and SL reduce the quality of the side season after season. Heck it was less than 10 years ago we had Faz, Scully, Lyon, Long, Newton Lam, Trent, Peacock, Graham, Burgess etc all playing in the league. There's no one in SL as good as those players.

It's getting boring and I personally want to see us keep the best players especially when they are under contract.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:16 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

People will always leave but if someone is under contract, imo, they should be kept as it allows for long term planning.

It's not the sake of buying its the sake of being competitive. We've got far too many kids in Our side imo and next season I don't want to see two inexperienced pivots at 6 & 1. It's simply not good enough for a team like Wigan.

Every year Wigan and SL reduce the quality of the side season after season. Heck it was less than 10 years ago we had Faz, Scully, Lyon, Long, Newton Lam, Trent, Peacock, Graham, Burgess etc all playing in the league. There's no one in SL as good as those players.

It's getting boring and I personally want to see us keep the best players especially when they are under contract.

Not as easy as that though is it, the NRL and RU both have over double the salary cap SL does . If either come calling and the player wants to leave the best we can do is make sure we can demand a transfer fee.

I agree to an extent about the spine of the team being young and inexperienced, but there's still a chance Bowen may stay on which would allow Hampshire to take the number 1 jersey in 2016. I'd argue that at least the likes of Powell, Hampshire and Williams have been playing in our systems for years so can slot in rather than bringing in someone who would need time to adjust.

Throughout Super League we have consistently had a half back combination for a year or two and recruited from oversees. A Powell/Smith combination could at last bring a bit of stability and consistency in our halves.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:32 pm  

Bigredwarrior wrote:

Not one to put 2 and 2 together and get 5 but I saw Joel Tomkins driving away from the training ground just before 11am this morning. I know it was rumoured we were trying to bring him back and I for one hope we do!!

Cant see any other reason why he'd be there given neither of his brothers are at the club?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:58 pm  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

Not as easy as that though is it, the NRL and RU both have over double the salary cap SL does . If either come calling and the player wants to leave the best we can do is make sure we can demand a transfer fee.
.

I think there's two sides to every coin.

One side is keep them until thier contacts run out, get the years stated and then let them go for free. This is the successful system used by Leeds.

The other side is develop a player, get a few good seasons and then sell him for a fee. You then replace with a young player and repeat the process. It's worked so far for Wigan but is it sustainable? It all hinges on having suitable quality coming through.

We've had money for good players and we've invested it back into the club. That's a positive but it does make me question what the point in having a millionaire owner is. I'm not knocking IL but as far as I can see all the infrastructure has either been paid for by Whelan, transfer fees or competition wins.

If we are gonna go down this route is it time we were owned by the fans? If we are going to invest off the back of playeys sold then there's no real reason to have one guy at the top.

Also I don't really understand why we sell our good players but let guys like Tuson, Mellor and potentially Logan leave on frees. Why spend money bringing in Bateman when potentialy we could have paid less and included someone like Logan, Murphy or Tierney in the deal? Those players are going to struggle to make it at Wigan imo and Wane must know it. Use them as make weights.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:03 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I think there's two sides to every coin.

One side is keep them until thier contacts run out, get the years stated and then let them go for free. This is the successful system used by Leeds.

The other side is develop a player, get a few good seasons and then sell him for a fee. You then replace with a young player and repeat the process. It's worked so far for Wigan but is it sustainable? It all hinges on having suitable quality coming through.

We've had money for good players and we've invested it back into the club. That's a positive but it does make me question what the point in having a millionaire owner is. I'm not knocking IL but as far as I can see all the infrastructure has either been paid for by Whelan, transfer fees or competition wins.

If we are gonna go down this route is it time we were owned by the fans? If we are going to invest off the back of playeys sold then there's no real reason to have one guy at the top.

Also I don't really understand why we sell our good players but let guys like Tuson, Mellor and potentially Logan leave on frees. Why spend money bringing in Bateman when potentialy we could have paid less and included someone like Logan, Murphy or Tierney in the deal? Those players are going to struggle to make it at Wigan imo and Wane must know it. Use them as make weights.

The whole reason Bradford sold Bateman was that they needed money. As for getting rid of IL and letting the fans rub the club, I think you need sectioning! The bloke is the best thing to happen to the club since I don't know when, not to mention the fact I wouldn't trust most of our fans to properly run a tuck shop