Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 6:42 am  

Stu M wrote:

I agree in the main with most of your points. We certainly lacked flair on Saturday but that was always going to the be the case given our situation. Bell plays on Saturday in the halves and we would’ve been more fluent. He’s a good player Bell (and incidentally one that Wigan wanted to sign last season) and would’ve offered much more than Davies.

I don’t think we lacked flair on Good Friday as had the conversions been kicked and a couple of disallowed tries going the other way we are 40 points on the board.

A fully fit Lomax and Dodd certainly gives us flair.

You’re right about what our strengths are though and yes we do play for field position, hunt mistakes with our defence etc. I’ve said for a couple of weeks now that Walmsley isn’t right, he’s definitely carrying some sort of injury in my opinion and Knowles has been poor since his concussion.

It will definitely be interesting the next time we play because as much as Wigan are learning how to play us, I really can’t see us putting that 40 min performance in again. It just left us too much to do.

Not having a go at you but so far- Walmsley isnt right,Lomax and Dodds isnt fit ,Bell didnt play,Knowles (best player by a country mile) has been poor since his concussion seems like looking for excuses because you lost.
To me it looks if Saints lose a couple of players they will and Wigan have a greater depth of talent for backup.
Obviously not saying we will win the next game against you lot but it gets more interesting and I feel some saints will start to feel a bit twitchy nearer the time.

Hope we get to the final with you lot as I would like to know how much our bet would be for (charity)

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 6:49 am  

Jason65 wrote:

Not having a go at you but so far- Walmsley isnt right,Lomax and Dodds isnt fit ,Bell didnt play,Knowles (best player by a country mile) has been poor since his concussion seems like looking for excuses because you lost.
To me it looks if Saints lose a couple of players they will and Wigan have a greater depth of talent for backup.
Obviously not saying we will win the next game against you lot but it gets more interesting and I feel some saints will start to feel a bit twitchy nearer the time.

Hope we get to the final with you lot as I would like to know how much our bet would be for (charity)

It’s not excuses it’s mitigation. The one place we do lack squad depth is in the halves and my worry was always what we would do if one of them were injured for any length of time. The fact Dodd is now out for the season and Lomax hampered is our worst fears come true.

I can’t understand why we aren’t operating on Lomax and letting him recover.

You can’t tell me that had we won on Saturday Wigan fans wouldn’t have mentioned Leulaui, Powell and KPP being missing?

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 6:53 am  

Jason65 wrote:

Not having a go at you but so far- Walmsley isnt right,Lomax and Dodds isnt fit ,Bell didnt play,Knowles (best player by a country mile) has been poor since his concussion seems like looking for excuses because you lost.
To me it looks if Saints lose a couple of players they will and Wigan have a greater depth of talent for backup.
Obviously not saying we will win the next game against you lot but it gets more interesting and I feel some saints will start to feel a bit twitchy nearer the time.

Hope we get to the final with you lot as I would like to know how much our bet would be for (charity)

I think that’s unfair.

Supporters will always look at their own team first. Most Wiganers will look at the semi final and say we let them back into the game with unforced errors and a lack of intensity immediately after half time. St Helens supporters will rue their mistakes and look for reasons they weren’t as fluent as they have come to expect, Dodd out and Lomax carrying an injury will contribute to that. Equally, so did the pressure from the Wigan defence which certainly unsettled them.

I consistently look at Wigan and think we invite the opposition into games by conceding easy ball and territory. It’s not intended to take anything away from any opponent.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 7:24 am  

Stu M wrote:

It’s not excuses it’s mitigation. The one place we do lack squad depth is in the halves and my worry was always what we would do if one of them were injured for any length of time. The fact Dodd is now out for the season and Lomax hampered is our worst fears come true.

I can’t understand why we aren’t operating on Lomax and letting him recover.

You can’t tell me that had we won on Saturday Wigan fans wouldn’t have mentioned Leulaui, Powell and KPP being missing?

I wouldnt have mentioned Powell etc,others may have.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 7:36 am  

Trainman wrote:

I think that’s unfair.

Supporters will always look at their own team first. Most Wiganers will look at the semi final and say we let them back into the game with unforced errors and a lack of intensity immediately after half time. St Helens supporters will rue their mistakes and look for reasons they weren’t as fluent as they have come to expect, Dodd out and Lomax carrying an injury will contribute to that. Equally, so did the pressure from the Wigan defence which certainly unsettled them.

I consistently look at Wigan and think we invite the opposition into games by conceding easy ball and territory. It’s not intended to take anything away from any opponent.

I only repeated what my saints friend stated.
We was missing players aswell.(I dont like to dwell on that) and I would not have blamed that if we had lost.
If you lose you move on to next game if you win enjoy the moment then move on to the next game.
I get sick of reading about how sh%t Wigan are and not one of them would get in the Saints side,we have just beat them and they are up set tough.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 11:01 am  

Saturday was a great illustration of the point I made before Good Friday (that YG took exception to), We have more natural back ups in the spine positions and could cope better with injuries. I said we could potentially even improve with a couple of injuries and you could possibly argue that we have. We have a natural fullback replacement in French, a natural halfback replacement in Smith (and the option to put Field in there) and we have a natural back up nine in O’Neill (although Saints are well stocked there as well). We don’t need to play an injured player for the rest of 2022 and try to hide him at fullback in defence and at some point it looks like we’ll have some really tough decisions to make.

Saints are the rightful favourites for the LLS and GF but it’s not a given by any stretch now. The decision to push Lomax through the pain barrier for the rest of the season surprises me. They could get it sorted and have him back for the back end of the year. They’ll still be in the top 2 or 3 and could then attack the final few games. That decision is a strange one imo.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 11:28 am  

Nightmare for England as well.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 11:36 am  

MadDogg wrote:

Nightmare for England as well.

Jake Connor to the rescue

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 11:42 am  

Stu M wrote:

I agree in the main with most of your points. We certainly lacked flair on Saturday but that was always going to the be the case given our situation. Bell plays on Saturday in the halves and we would’ve been more fluent. He’s a good player Bell (and incidentally one that Wigan wanted to sign last season) and would’ve offered much more than Davies.

I don’t think we lacked flair on Good Friday as had the conversions been kicked and a couple of disallowed tries going the other way we are 40 points on the board.

A fully fit Lomax and Dodd certainly gives us flair.

You’re right about what our strengths are though and yes we do play for field position, hunt mistakes with our defence etc. I’ve said for a couple of weeks now that Walmsley isn’t right, he’s definitely carrying some sort of injury in my opinion and Knowles has been poor since his concussion.

It will definitely be interesting the next time we play because as much as Wigan are learning how to play us, I really can’t see us putting that 40 min performance in again. It just left us too much to do.

All fair points Stu, but the truth, as it stands, is you have limited scope for change. Dodd is gone. That's not going to change. Lomax is busted and, for some reason that completely escapes me, it's not being sorted. There is no chance on earth that situation is going to become better. It wouldn't surprise me if it was responsible for the pass that lost you the game on Saturday. You are basically relying on Bell coming in and being able to carry you for a full season. I'm not saying it can't happen but I am saying it's unlikely.

You keep referencing good Friday as if that's some sort of be all and end all as to what can happen going forward. I addressed that at the time. It's not like I was speaking with hindsight. I said what I said from the ashes of defeat. Yet I was right. Going forward I think we have more improvement in us than you do. Conversely you're unlikely to even be at your best on a consistent basis let alone improve.

The question that should be being asked is a very simple one. Can our improvement continue to the point that it closes the (increasingly small) gap between us? Saturday suggests it can.

Re: What can we learn from playing Saints : Mon May 09, 2022 11:52 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

All fair points Stu, but the truth, as it stands, is you have limited scope for change. Dodd is gone. That's not going to change. Lomax is busted and, for some reason that completely escapes me, it's not being sorted. There is no chance on earth that situation is going to become better. It wouldn't surprise me if it was responsible for the pass that lost you the game on Saturday. You are basically relying on Bell coming in and being able to carry you for a full season. I'm not saying it can't happen but I am saying it's unlikely.

You keep referencing good Friday as if that's some sort of be all and end all as to what can happen going forward. I addressed that at the time. It's not like I was speaking with hindsight. I said what I said from the ashes of defeat. Yet I was right. Going forward I think we have more improvement in us than you do. Conversely you're unlikely to even be at your best on a consistent basis let alone improve.

The question that should be being asked is a very simple one. Can our improvement continue to the point that it closes the (increasingly small) gap between us? Saturday suggests it can.

Your first paragraph is bang on and I agree with all of it even the fact that Bell may or may not be the answer.

However I genuinely feel that the first 40 mins on Saturday was our worst 40 for some time. I just think that we won't be that bad again against you. Once we raised our game in the second half, there looked to be only one winner. So yes whilst I agree there probably isn't as much improvement in us there is in Wigan, I stand by the fact that if we play anwhere near to the standards we have set, we win the next game against you and in a Final if we meet.

Woolf gambled on a particular set up in that first half and he got it badly wrong. The second half he fixed it.

If I'm wrong I'll come back on here like I did yesterday when it would've been easy for me to hide and not come back on. I'll hold my hands up and admit that you were right and I was wrong.

And credit where its due you did say before the game that you thought Wigan would win and you never veered from that at all.