Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:48 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Yes I understand what you are saying. But my point is this - you sit the player down you tell him he isn't in the first 17. He has a choice whether to collect his wages and not play or to move on to play but on lower wages.

I'm certain that there would be a queue of clubs willing to take a punt on Sam Tomkins, believing that that they could get the best out of him. Of course we know that our eyes are not deceiving us, he really is finished, but I'll bet that Warrington would take him and pay him well too.

Any club would take McIlorum (apart from Leeds and Hull who don't need him). Sutton would get a gig somewhere, probably Salford. FPN can go back home where his reputation would probably get him a better contract actually. I doubt anyone would want Leuluai to be honest so we might keep him as reserve hooker.

So first of all you say, all these players are done and need replacing and then you say

Any club would take McIlorum

. You can't honestly believe that other clubs can't see what you can, that a lot of these players are just not worth it any more!! I certainly wouldn't want McIlorum at my club, other than being a niggly little **** I can't see that he brings too much to the hooking role.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:52 am  

DaveO wrote:

Do you want the blindingly obvious issues fixed or do you want to be nice to Wane?

He knows as any coach does past glories don't guarantee your job when the wheels come off. Ask Smith, Hasler and Madge.

It's not about being nice to Wane. He has enough credit in the bank to have earned another season. But it is with the proviso that we have not just to win something, but improve our regular season performances.

I'm not sure how much the recruitment is down to Wane or is it Radlinski /Lenegan? But it has been poor with too many former players brought back. IMO the squad needs overhauling. Do you agree or are you just being nice to former greats of the club?

The season has been woeful but I would argue that Wane has to take a share of the blame, not the whole of the blame.

If Maguire was available then I'd have him back. But don't run away with any ideas that the quality of rugby would improve because it wouldn't.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:53 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Yes I understand what you are saying. But my point is this - you sit the player down you tell him he isn't in the first 17. He has a choice whether to collect his wages and not play or to move on to play but on lower wages.

I'm certain that there would be a queue of clubs willing to take a punt on Sam Tomkins, believing that that they could get the best out of him. Of course we know that our eyes are not deceiving us, he really is finished, but I'll bet that Warrington would take him and pay him well too.

Any club would take McIlorum (apart from Leeds and Hull who don't need him). Sutton would get a gig somewhere, probably Salford. FPN can go back home where his reputation would probably get him a better contract actually. I doubt anyone would want Leuluai to be honest so we might keep him as reserve hooker.

We must look at the team as a whole first of all and then look at individual players.
Firstly, Wigan are the most boring team to watch in the league.
Secondly, our players are always getting injured.
Thirdly, they seem to lack class.

I think the above three are linked and all point to the coach as being responsible.
He has to go.
I think some players would improve with better coaching and by being surrounded by better players.
I would keep Escare, Sam Tomkins, Manfredi, Gildart, Burgess, Davies, Williams, Farrell, Bateman, Sutton...and one more season from O'Loughlin.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:55 am  

Fordy wrote:

So first of all you say, all these players are done and need replacing and then you say . You can't honestly believe that other clubs can't see what you can, that a lot of these players are just not worth it any more!! I certainly wouldn't want McIlorum at my club, other than being a niggly little **** I can't see that he brings too much to the hooking role.

Mate, there are always coaches who think they can get a tune out of an old banjo. You might not want McIlorum, and I respect that, but I'm pretty sure that he'd get a gig somewhere in Super League.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:03 am  

Salty wrote:

We must look at the team as a whole first of all and then look at individual players.
Firstly, Wigan are the most boring team to watch in the league.
Secondly, our players are always getting injured.
Thirdly, they seem to lack class.

I think the above three are linked and all point to the coach as being responsible.
He has to go.
I think some players would improve with better coaching and by being surrounded by better players.
I would keep Escare, Sam Tomkins, Manfredi, Gildart, Burgess, Davies, Williams, Farrell, Bateman, Sutton...and one more season from O'Loughlin.

I don't dispute any of that. Our discipline is poor, which I think is your point about lacking class. I'd certainly agree with that. It bothers me that the rest of the league see us as dirty and niggly, and I think it is probably true. And you are right that is down to the coach. That needs to change.

I'm about 60/40 in his favour for one more year, but there needs to be new signings, because some of those highly paid players have not delivered, nor are they likely to next season.

[TimperleySaint]

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:04 am  

Aboveusonlypie wrote:

Mate, there are always coaches who think they can get a tune out of an old banjo. You might not want McIlorum, and I respect that, but I'm pretty sure that he'd get a gig somewhere in Super League.

I doubt any of the top 4 teams would want him, and if they do it will only be as a back up, so would only end up playing as much rugby as he would if he stays at Wigan, but would be on a massively reduced contract - so not gonna happen. Or he goes to another middle eights team, again on a lower salary (because they aren't gonna pay top whack) but with less chance of winning a trophy, so again no-brainer and not gonna happen.

As I said earlier, it can be a short career these days, and players have to think about number 1 - so will always do what is best for them while they can. Not many players stay in the game once playing career is over, and only a very few can make it into media if coaching isn't their thing, so staying on at a club and earning £150k a year but only playing 10 games is going to be far more beneficial to them than moving elsewhere to play 20+ games and only be on £75k

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:12 am  

Mike Oxlong wrote:

I doubt any of the top 4 teams would want him, and if they do it will only be as a back up, so would only end up playing as much rugby as he would if he stays at Wigan, but would be on a massively reduced contract - so not gonna happen. Or he goes to another middle eights team, again on a lower salary (because they aren't gonna pay top whack) but with less chance of winning a trophy, so again no-brainer and not gonna happen.

As I said earlier, it can be a short career these days, and players have to think about number 1 - so will always do what is best for them while they can. Not many players stay in the game once playing career is over, and only a very few can make it into media if coaching isn't their thing, so staying on at a club and earning £150k a year but only playing 10 games is going to be far more beneficial to them than moving elsewhere to play 20+ games and only be on £75k

You are right he wouldn't get in a top 4 team. But we'll have to agree to disagree because I believe another club would take him, even as back up. If he wants to run his contract down then there isn't much we can do about it, but most players would rather play.

I reckon if Leigh stay up they might fancy him to replace Higham, Hull KR might fancy him to support Lunt, I'd swap him for Hinchliffe for example with the Giants getting a fee, so I think there are lots of options.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:23 am  

I think we need to be sensible about this.

I agree that a whole bunch of players need to find new homes - my list would be: Burgess, Gelling, Leuluai, Clubb, FPN, Tautai, McIlorum and Joel (with Sam and George given stern warnings about their performance-to-pay ratio) - but the days are gone when we can just put them all on the transfer list.

The only real thing we can do is let their contracts expire naturally. No doubt their agents will start looking elsewhere before then (especially if they know they aren't getting new deals), and so some might depart early. It could mean that we end up with a bunch of even less-interested players than we have now, but to be honest, I'd defy any of them to be this ineffective again, even if they were trying to be.

The one thing we can move to fix quickly is the coaching problem.

SW may have some credit in the bank, as a former poster said, but does that count for anything after what's just happened? It wouldn't be so bad if 2017 had been a one-off, possibly caused by the injury crisis. But though we've won trophies in recent years, we've all seen a steady decline in form and style over the last few seasons. Too often, it seems, we've performed badly for month after month and just managed to scrape it together near the end. That was never really good enough for Wigan before, but now that chicken has come home to roost fully - we didn't pull it together late, and the club finished a humiliating 6th in the table.

The last time that happened was when Nobby was in charge. If it wasn't good enough then, it shouldn't be good enough now.

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:44 am  

Lets be realistic here not much will change.

We will go into next year with the same squad, I cant see us signing anyone unless someone leaves, most likely FPN according to rumours but that's not a given, maybe Navarrete and Tierney will leave, but as someone has pointed out they will have to be paid off as only Lockers is off contact this year. The only thing I can see happening is us getting a new/additional assistant, weather that will be enough, probably not who knows.

[Bullseye]

Re: Wane is out of contract : Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 am  

As an outsider it looks to me as if Wane's influence is waning! Maybe time to freshen things up. It's his judgement on players that has got you the squad you have now. It's also his style that the side is playing. Has he really enough in the bank for you to see that style and that recruitment policy continue for another year or longer? I can't see a big improvement without a few signings of quality but as has been said you're restricted with cap and contracts already in place.

Would Wane really sign for one more year anyway? If he is at the end of his deal he'll want 2 years at least and backing to spend some money. Would IL want to sign up to that given the losses made recently? Or would he be better going for someone new like Hasler who could freshen things up and maybe attract some new talent?

If I was IL I'd say thanks Shaun but time for a change.