Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:04 am  

Counting props like they do subs at Academy level......

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:17 am  

Jukesays wrote:

It's almost like they have a plan

Possibly.

I know we'll disagree, but over the last 3-4 years I'd argue planning isn't something we've been great at.

Lessons could have been learnt tho.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:36 am  

Stu M wrote:

Not sure how I feel about this to be honest. If they are signing a busted Thompson and he turns out like George Burgess then I'll thoroughly enjoy it. However if they are signing a now fully fit Thompson with a point to prove then there's no doubt its a stellar signing and one that seems to be the "statement signing" that I mentioned on here. The Wigan pack which was once formerly an area of weakness is now no longer that and will be very strong. I still don't understand how 9 props will be used though unless Hill and Chan are loaned out. Even then that's 7 by my calculations.

To save me typing twice, the below is what I've just posted on Red Vee


Seems to be gathering enough pace this that it will be true. A fit Thompson will be a statement signing for them and annoyingly they have made some smart recruitment backed by their billionaire owner. Whilst they haven't bought from Saints directly this has shades of Connolly and Platt where they can blow us out of the water. Granted we are a much more succcessful team than back then but the point stands.

This could be the start of a golden era for them. They have a younger team backed up by them hoovering up all of the best junior talent even from community clubs in St Helens. I just hope we haven't taken our eye off the ball because we have a real transition ahead of us. Makinson, Lomax, Walmsley, Paasi, Hurrell etc all in their 30s, Percival not far away. I know we have some outstanding young lads in the Academy too but I just hope I'm wrong in predicting a golden few years for Wigan

Whether by luck or judgement, a huge factor behind Saints' period of dominance over the last few years has been your ability to retain players. You seem to have basically gone through an entire generation of players without losing anyone that you'd ideally want to retain (bar the very rare exception, like ironically, Thompson).

Contrast that to Wigan, who over the course of roughly the same period have lost Sam Tomkins (twice) Joel Tomkins, Mossop, Scott Taylor, George Williams, Josh Charnley, John Bateman (twice), Ryan Sutton, Ollie Gildart and Joe Burgess to name just some, all at ages when they should've been approaching their best. KPP is the latest name you can add to that. Maybe Smithies in the not too distant future.

That's obviously not meant to a sob story for Wigan, but I think any talk of a golden era depends on us doing a better of keeping the squad together than we have done for the last ten years or so. It's all well and good putting in the time so the likes of Havard, Smithies, O'Neill and Smith change from promising to very good players, but you can only cash in on that investment if they stay in the building. I agree that things are looking very promising from where we're sitting now though.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 9:58 am  

Cherry_&_White wrote:

Whether by luck or judgement, a huge factor behind Saints' period of dominance over the last few years has been your ability to retain players. You seem to have basically gone through an entire generation of players without losing anyone that you'd ideally want to retain (bar the very rare exception, like ironically, Thompson).

Contrast that to Wigan, who over the course of roughly the same period have lost Sam Tomkins (twice) Joel Tomkins, Mossop, Scott Taylor, George Williams, Josh Charnley, John Bateman (twice), Ryan Sutton, Ollie Gildart and Joe Burgess to name just some, all at ages when they should've been approaching their best. KPP is the latest name you can add to that. Maybe Smithies in the not too distant future.

That's obviously not meant to a sob story for Wigan, but I think any talk of a golden era depends on us doing a better of keeping the squad together than we have done for the last ten years or so. It's all well and good putting in the time so the likes of Havard, Smithies, O'Neill and Smith change from promising to very good players, but you can only cash in on that investment if they stay in the building. I agree that things are looking very promising from where we're sitting now though.

All water under the bridge as we seem to be coming out of the other side of it, but Saints wouldn't have seen half of their success if we'd have kept the players we needed to. Sam, Williams, Charley, Mcilorum, Bateman, Taylor (to a lesser extent) + the talent that's come through is enough to win a couple of those GF's imo.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:01 am  

Cherry_&_White wrote:

Whether by luck or judgement, a huge factor behind Saints' period of dominance over the last few years has been your ability to retain players. You seem to have basically gone through an entire generation of players without losing anyone that you'd ideally want to retain (bar the very rare exception, like ironically, Thompson).

Contrast that to Wigan, who over the course of roughly the same period have lost Sam Tomkins (twice) Joel Tomkins, Mossop, Scott Taylor, George Williams, Josh Charnley, John Bateman (twice), Ryan Sutton, Ollie Gildart and Joe Burgess to name just some, all at ages when they should've been approaching their best. KPP is the latest name you can add to that. Maybe Smithies in the not too distant future.

That's obviously not meant to a sob story for Wigan, but I think any talk of a golden era depends on us doing a better of keeping the squad together than we have done for the last ten years or so. It's all well and good putting in the time so the likes of Havard, Smithies, O'Neill and Smith change from promising to very good players, but you can only cash in on that investment if they stay in the building. I agree that things are looking very promising from where we're sitting now though.

Really good post. I just think though that you have made some really smart business decisions on and off the field. Peet has been brillliant and now tied to a long term deal. You are now cash rich due to Danson and although you've always had a conveyor belt of talent coming through, you've now seemed to go to another level with signing the best junior talent. That said, in our defence we are hardly short of talented lads coming through and we definitely will see at least 5 or 6 from that Academy team yesterday playing first team over the next couple of years.

I think we are going to buck the trend with Welsby though, I think the NRL will be too much of an attractive proposition for him.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:22 am  

Stu M wrote:

Really good post. I just think though that you have made some really smart business decisions on and off the field. Peet has been brillliant and now tied to a long term deal. You are now cash rich due to Danson and although you've always had a conveyor belt of talent coming through, you've now seemed to go to another level with signing the best junior talent. That said, in our defence we are hardly short of talented lads coming through and we definitely will see at least 5 or 6 from that Academy team yesterday playing first team over the next couple of years.

I think we are going to buck the trend with Welsby though, I think the NRL will be too much of an attractive proposition for him.

Are we going big on getting the best juniors signed up Stu? I noticed a good few of the new intake of players seemed to be from clubs outside of Wigan. It feels as though the academy has taken a bit of a step back this past couple of years but you can't win them all I suppose.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:29 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Are we going big on getting the best juniors signed up Stu? I noticed a good few of the new intake of players seemed to be from clubs outside of Wigan. It feels as though the academy has taken a bit of a step back this past couple of years but you can't win them all I suppose.

I've posted on here before about Wigan's current signings. Thatto Heath is probably the best RL club in the country now at junior levels (U14s/15s) etc. They have fantastic coaches and really good development plans. Wigan have signed 8 of the current U14s I believe (maybe they are U15s) whereas Saints have only signed 4.

It seems like Wigan have done what we did with our current Academy team whereby we signed about 14 I think from the all conquering Rylands junior team.

Wigan have now done similar with the Thatto Heath one.

Traditionally Wigan have signed from St Judes/St Pats etc but over the last few years I've noticed they are signing from St Helens based community clubs- Blackbrook and now Thatto Heath. The below is a really good post from someone on Red Vee who is involved at Thatto Heath

**************************************************************************************************************

I've been lucky to be involved with this group and yes Wigan have signed 8, 7 from Thatto first team and 1 from the second team. Saints have signed 4 including the whole front row and a centre/fullback with a further signing for Bradford. There are also about another 10 from both Thatto teams not signed yet playing in the 'prospects' teams at Saints, Wigan and Warrington.

Thatto have the best coaches in the league imho and whilst other teams have been trying to be the best at 11/12/13 Thatto have played the long game and developed the players and not chased results, culminating in winning the BARLA national cup a few months ago against Shevington, the other dominant team at this age group, both face each other again in the Lancashire Cup final on the 24th at Clock Face 3PM, well worth a watch if you get chance.

Thatto beat local rivals Blackbrook away 0-54 last night in an absolutely dominant performance, whilst Thatto second team have worked up from division 5 to division 2 probably ending up in 4th and just missing promotion which is an outstanding achievement in itself.

Just on the scouting side and in all credit to Wigan they have scouts everywhere, even watching the lower league games, and have been watching Thatto since U11, Saints less so with Warrington not seeming to venture out of Warrington.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 10:51 am  

Stu M wrote:

I've posted on here before about Wigan's current signings. Thatto Heath is probably the best RL club in the country now at junior levels (U14s/15s) etc. They have fantastic coaches and really good development plans. Wigan have signed 8 of the current U14s I believe (maybe they are U15s) whereas Saints have only signed 4.

It seems like Wigan have done what we did with our current Academy team whereby we signed about 14 I think from the all conquering Rylands junior team.

Wigan have now done similar with the Thatto Heath one.

Traditionally Wigan have signed from St Judes/St Pats etc but over the last few years I've noticed they are signing from St Helens based community clubs- Blackbrook and now Thatto Heath. The below is a really good post from someone on Red Vee who is involved at Thatto Heath

**************************************************************************************************************

I've been lucky to be involved with this group and yes Wigan have signed 8, 7 from Thatto first team and 1 from the second team. Saints have signed 4 including the whole front row and a centre/fullback with a further signing for Bradford. There are also about another 10 from both Thatto teams not signed yet playing in the 'prospects' teams at Saints, Wigan and Warrington.

Thatto have the best coaches in the league imho and whilst other teams have been trying to be the best at 11/12/13 Thatto have played the long game and developed the players and not chased results, culminating in winning the BARLA national cup a few months ago against Shevington, the other dominant team at this age group, both face each other again in the Lancashire Cup final on the 24th at Clock Face 3PM, well worth a watch if you get chance.

Thatto beat local rivals Blackbrook away 0-54 last night in an absolutely dominant performance, whilst Thatto second team have worked up from division 5 to division 2 probably ending up in 4th and just missing promotion which is an outstanding achievement in itself.

Just on the scouting side and in all credit to Wigan they have scouts everywhere, even watching the lower league games, and have been watching Thatto since U11, Saints less so with Warrington not seeming to venture out of Warrington.

Sounds promising and as though Wigan are working really hard to identify these lads.

Thanks for the info

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:04 am  

Sounds like Thompson is happening, Michael Carayannis and Brent Read are both reporting it who are decent Journos

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon Sep 25, 2023 11:10 am  

bazdev wrote:

Wouldn't his salary only count 50k on the cap with the 3rd marquee player rule for home grown players. If so then I dont imagine anybody would have to leave suddenly

£100k I believe. It would be an opportunity to send Harvie Hill out on loan for a season and then bring him back when Cooper and Mago's contract expire at the end of next season.