Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:26 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Me either though I think it was unfair to expect the fans to answer the question. Saying they disagreed could make it sound as if they were being disloyal and they presumably wouldn’t want to do that. They weren’t there to answer questions so that sounds a rather cynical move by Rads to deflect from an obvious issue by putting fans on the spot.

It doesn’t matter how well the youth system has worked in the past, we have ended up with a pack far too reliant on youth. The fact we have isn’t a poor reflection on the youth system anyway. It’s a poor reflection on the squad management. If Clubb and Clarke aren’t the right players to spell the kids with that isn’t their fault but the clubs for having those two as the senior props.

I'm not with you on the Rads question to the audience, he didn't dwell on it, he just asked it mid sentence and seemed to be more of a "Surely you don't want us to change this approach"?

The Highlighted bit is interesting, because they did mention that there were occasions when players not being selected to compliment the youth had them scratching their heads. Spoke to someone earlier today and they said someone was telling him that IL/Rads tell Lam who to pick , I can't believe that to be true and would make me question Lam even more. So I'll leave that as complete and utter BS.
In the bit where they talked about Lam leaving they didn't crucify him, but I got an undercurrent that certain things like that had played a part in their decision to let him go. Now thats a short explanation of my feeling of what went on, it was far more nuanced than that. But I'm just trying to show that they accepted that things hadn't been good enough and that it was time to part ways.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:30 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

In his latest surgery he was operated on by a surgeon who operated on a South African RU player who had the same (if not mildly different) hip injury who then went on to continue representing SARU. It’s little surprise to me to see him back playing but one does wonder with regards to the above how and why the club are playing a naivety card on the matter.

They didn't play niave, they said they e created the issue by working him too hard etc etc.
That imo meant that they didn't manage the condition the way they should have done and that caused the situation were else then couldn't perform to the level he had at Souths were the same injury was being managed correctly.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:31 pm  

[quote="Egg Chasing"][/quote]

Yip
You quoted the important part

[DaveO]

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:53 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I'm not with you on the Rads question to the audience, he didn't dwell on it, he just asked it mid sentence and seemed to be more of a "Surely you don't want us to change this approach"?

The Highlighted bit is interesting, because they did mention that there were occasions when players not being selected to compliment the youth had them scratching their heads. Spoke to someone earlier today and they said someone was telling him that IL/Rads tell Lam who to pick , I can't believe that to be true and would make me question Lam even more. So I'll leave that as complete and utter BS.
In the bit where they talked about Lam leaving they didn't crucify him, but I got an undercurrent that certain things like that had played a part in their decision to let him go. Now thats a short explanation of my feeling of what went on, it was far more nuanced than that. But I'm just trying to show that they accepted that things hadn't been good enough and that it was time to part ways.

As to Rads question it read as though Rads was challenging the audience not as if it was mentioned in passing. As you said no one piped up with an answer I took that to mean it was a direct and pointed question.

If the selections had them scratching their heads I am left wondering why they didn’t do something about it earlier. In my opinion the fact Lam has played a pack of young players far too often is damaging those players you mentioned they see as integral to the pack in the next few years. What were they afraid of?

[DaveO]

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:00 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

They didn't play niave, they said they e created the issue by working him too hard etc etc.
That imo meant that they didn't manage the condition the way they should have done and that caused the situation were else then couldn't perform to the level he had at Souths were the same injury was being managed correctly.

So who was responsible for over training him then? This is a pretty astonishing admission that our coaching and physios aren’t up to the job.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:04 pm  

Jukesays wrote: Which bit of it do you not understand? If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50 I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop. I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc. If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that. Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on. I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged? I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought. Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc. But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time). What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420 I think to myself what makes people do that? I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were. It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific. Imagine getting stuck in to Lam to that degree I’m his biggest critic on here but I like to think it’s constructive and it’s never personal. I think the world of Lammy the player and Lammy the bloke. The coaching version is sadly not good enough IMO but when I see idiots younger than his playing boots at Wigan, holding banners up calling for his head, that feels sad. I read about Lams press conference today where they asked him about his times at Wigan and they said he filled up and was in tears talking about how he loves it here and he loves the club. I hate questioning a guy like that, I know he hasn’t meant to be a let down as a coach but it’s just turned out that way. I really hope whatever happens now, we can have a good send off for Lammy. He’s a Wigan legend and we can’t forget that.

Jukesays wrote: Which bit of it do you not understand? If its the bit about not streaming it I've said a dozen times I'm 50/50 I can honestly see why people may question it, but I can see, given negotiations/issues the club are currently involved with and have been involved in with a number of other parties they may not want to risk being caught on the hop. I get the argument that they could have done a forum "light" and live streamed it, but I'm sure lots of people, pro abamy the same who are up in arms now would probably call it rubbish and they didn't tell us any detail etc. If they edit it and put it out delayed im sure there will ne complaints about that. Now I expected people having a whinge, but people saying that's them done with the club, being appalled etc somenofnthe language used about thise that went, I could go on. I've spoke to 4/5 mates who couldn't go in last 2 days, none of them Have moaned about not going. Maybe thats not a fair sample, who knows? Maybe 99% of people.are outraged? I suspect the outraged may be the most vocal 10%, but I could be wrong I can honestly say, if I hadn't have gone, or it clashed and I couldnt go I genuinely wouldn't have given it more than 2 seconds thought. Picked up a few snippets here amd there, spoke to people who may have gone etc. But maybe I'm in the minority, I'm not one of those that thinks I need to know everything I don't get outraged about stuff and feel I have to comment on most stuff (ill clarify that, I mean I'm not one-off those on twitter, Facebook commenting or having opinions on stuff all the time). What typing someone put this in out WhatsApp group https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby- ... es-3369420 I think to myself what makes people do that? I don't like Lam as a coach, but I do wonder if people actually think before they say things, do things etx. And the gods honest truth is i don't think so As I said the other day, I thought that people may be understanding more of the issues,problems etc that people have gone through and show a bit of u derstanding But it seems like some people are even more enraged about the tiniest thig etc and perceived wrongdoings theyve "suffered" than they ever were. It'll its about any particular topic you'd have to be more specific. Imagine getting stuck in to Lam to that degree I’m his biggest critic on here but I like to think it’s constructive and it’s never personal. I think the world of Lammy the player and Lammy the bloke. The coaching version is sadly not good enough IMO but when I see idiots younger than his playing boots at Wigan, holding banners up calling for his head, that feels sad. I read about Lams press conference today where they asked him about his times at Wigan and they said he filled up and was in tears talking about how he loves it here and he loves the club. I hate questioning a guy like that, I know he hasn’t meant to be a let down as a coach but it’s just turned out that way. I really hope whatever happens now, we can have a good send off for Lammy. He’s a Wigan legend and we can’t forget that.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:23 pm  

There’s been far too many poor decisions regarding the playing squad for Rads/IL/head coach not to take blame for the lack of recent success and a poor season that will result in losing a lot of fans. The sum of these decisions cannot be blamed on “bad luck”.

I’m not that bothered about him but the situation around Hankinson seemed bizarre and conflicting messages that seemed like we didn’t know the detail.

Both French and Field arrived as square pegs in round holes with seemingly no real clue where to play them. Luckily French found some great form at FB whilst wearing the 6 shirt after starting on the wing.

Add onto that moving on Davies and Sarginson which seemed rash at the time and even worse now. Both in England squads after leaving.

Signing a 30 year old centre who plays for a relegated club to replace a 25 year old international.

The as mentioned Tony Clubb extension. Signing Clark and Bullock, two of the worst props in the league. Navarette was awful. Tautai

Sammut signing was bizzare.

We’ve won nearly all of the U19s championships in the last 10 years but now have a bunch of slightly above-average youngsters. I can’t pick one that I could safely say will be a regular international in the future. What is going wrong?

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 pm  

Interesting to hear the question about bringing young lads through. It should not be either develop our own or buy in, it should be both. The club has failed to strengthen successfully in too many areas for too long. We have relied on inexperienced players and in so doing have probably retarded their development.
Sadly we really are trying to get back into the top four yet our best rivals seem to be able to pick up quality. Saints manage to bring in players close to their peak whilst we are looking for projects which too often fail.
This has all come back to bite us. Rather than being able to build and recruit over time we are now scrabbling round for enough quality so that we do not miss the cut when the league reduced to ten teams.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Fri Sep 03, 2021 6:39 am  

Cameo of the Leeds team bringing all the young kids at once under Dean Bell we all know how that finished they all matured together and won trophies galore . When Dean Bell was coach the Leeds fans stayed away in droves because he was picking a young team we all know how that went on to win everything. They got a change of coach the rest is history .

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:08 am  

[quote="Pemps"
The Burgess statement seems baffling. His hip issue seemed to be common knowledge yet KR seems to be saying we caused it? He then states that Burgess turned up well overweight..[/quote]

Possibly in a "You are going to be trained hard to remove that blubber" kind of way, and the additional training may have been a contributory factor in doing his hip in. Civil Law is based on a balance of probability and if the club were 51% to blame for training him, whilst he was 49% to blame for letting himself get into a condition that he needed training, he'd win.