Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sun May 15, 2022 8:07 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I posted on the other forum about the tough balancing act we have between having enough experience in the pack but whilst still being able to bring youngsters through. I look at somebody like Nicholson and I’m convinced he’s a first 17 player within 18 months, so that means players have to make way. You need experience in your pack as well though. Somebody like Isa looks extremely vulnerable but then so do younger players like McDonnell and Partington. If we could get to a position of bringing one real high quality prop in for those sorts of guys, it might be worth doing.

You don’t want to leave yourself too thin but you’ve got KPP to come back, Nicholson coming through, guys like Nsemba, Hill and Bibby at the back of him and if you signed another starting prop, it’s likely somebody like Singleton or Mago would drop in to a back up spot.

Spoke to Rads a few weeks ago and he seems confident Nsemba will play first team this year.

If we can keep Havard/KPP long term our pack will be in good hands

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sun May 15, 2022 8:09 am  

Royce Hunt is more realistic than Braden Hamlin-Uele. Braden’s one of the best young props over there and Cronulla are close to tying him down to a new deal. Hunt is in and out of the 17 so would be attainable.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 8:15 am  

NSW wrote:

Spoke to Rads a few weeks ago and he seems confident Nsemba will play first team this year.

If we can keep Havard/KPP long term our pack will be in good hands

I think thats part of the problem /challenge though. We only need to look back a few years, and we looked set for a period where we challenged year on year, but the majority of those players left. We never really got the benefit of bringing them through the ranks apart from the couple of years they were establishing themselves. I think we may be in danger of the same thing happening if we are not careful.

I know you cant stop players wanting to move on, especially as the NRL is seen as the best league in the world and salary cap significantly higher, but Leeds and Saints have prevented mass exodus, so why have Wigan not been able to do that?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 8:45 am  

The pieman wrote:

I know you cant stop players wanting to move on, especially as the NRL is seen as the best league in the world and salary cap significantly higher, but Leeds and Saints have prevented mass exodus, so why have Wigan not been able to do that?

Undoubtedly this will turn into another "those Saints players aren't as good as Wigan's" type bore fest, but Saints have lost players.

Coote, Fages, Naiqama, Thompson & Bentley in the last 18 months alone. Before that, they weren't that great and we had our successful period, which put our lads in the spotlight.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 9:07 am  

The pieman wrote:

I know you cant stop players wanting to move on, especially as the NRL is seen as the best league in the world and salary cap significantly higher, but Leeds and Saints have prevented mass exodus, so why have Wigan not been able to do that?

It's a good question, this. I'm guessing, but it might have something to do with how those teams have had reasonable spells over the last few years where they wouldn't have too much talent that NRL clubs would want in the first place.

Take Leeds, you could say that a lot of their players who might've been of interest to NRL clubs were approaching the end of their careers when the financial rewards became so much greater than what you could get in SL. How many players have they produced since who looked the real deal when they're approaching their mid-20s, like Bateman & Williams, or even Sutton were? I suppose Oledzki on form could be put in that bracket, but beyond him, it might be more a lack-of-interest from Australia rather than anything else.

Saints are obviously different now, but it's only really the last few years where you'd have said that they have a decent number of players who would likely go well over there. Makinson was always a good player I suppose, but it's always harder for outside backs to get their chance in the NRL. Obviously Roby too, but like O'Loughlin he always seemed content to be a one club man. Beyond that? Thompson has already gone, Lees likely to follow. There would obviously be interest in Walmsley if he fancied going, which he doesn't seem to for whatever reason. Not sure about Knowles either, but it wouldn't at all surprise me if he is playing in the NRL in the not too distant future.

Basically I think there's something in the idea that Wigan have simply been the club that most consistently developed players of potential NRL quality over the last 10 years or so, and so that'll play a big part as to why we've lost so many of them. Especially when you consider that the Tomkins/Williams/Batemans/Gildarts/Suttons etc. of this world were winning trophies so early in their career, it's natural that they'd look elsewhere for new challenges a bit earlier than if they felt they had unfinished business.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 9:32 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Undoubtedly this will turn into another "those Saints players aren't as good as Wigan's" type bore fest, but Saints have lost players.

Coote, Fages, Naiqama, Thompson & Bentley in the last 18 months alone. Before that, they weren't that great and we had our successful period, which put our lads in the spotlight.

i was thinking more home grown players and in a slightly different context. I certainly wasnt looking to get into a they arent good enough type debate as there are certainly a few players across the whole of super league who could have a good go in Oz

Coote gone for final payday
Naiqama is 33 and an import, so Saints never spent time and money developing him into the player he was
Fages is a victim of the salary cap, and Saints chose Dodds over him by the looks of it. He got a better offer at Hudds and moved on
Thompson is the one that Saints havent felt the benefit of in a very similar way to how i was looking at it. Brought through the youth ranks and then moved to Oz

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 9:39 am  

Cherry_&_White wrote:

It's a good question, this. I'm guessing, but it might have something to do with how those teams have had reasonable spells over the last few years where they wouldn't have too much talent that NRL clubs would want in the first place.

Take Leeds, you could say that a lot of their players who might've been of interest to NRL clubs were approaching the end of their careers when the financial rewards became so much greater than what you could get in SL. How many players have they produced since who looked the real deal when they're approaching their mid-20s, like Bateman & Williams, or even Sutton were? I suppose Oledzki on form could be put in that bracket, but beyond him, it might be more a lack-of-interest from Australia rather than anything else.

Saints are obviously different now, but it's only really the last few years where you'd have said that they have a decent number of players who would likely go well over there. Makinson was always a good player I suppose, but it's always harder for outside backs to get their chance in the NRL. Obviously Roby too, but like O'Loughlin he always seemed content to be a one club man. Beyond that? Thompson has already gone, Lees likely to follow. There would obviously be interest in Walmsley if he fancied going, which he doesn't seem to for whatever reason. Not sure about Knowles either, but it wouldn't at all surprise me if he is playing in the NRL in the not too distant future.

Basically I think there's something in the idea that Wigan have simply been the club that most consistently developed players of potential NRL quality over the last 10 years or so, and so that'll play a big part as to why we've lost so many of them. Especially when you consider that the Tomkins/Williams/Batemans/Gildarts/Suttons etc. of this world were winning trophies so early in their career, it's natural that they'd look elsewhere for new challenges a bit earlier than if they felt they had unfinished business.

thats a fair point and not something as fans we necessarily think about. There is a hope that players come through the ranks and see out their careers with Wigan, but on the flip side, if the club doesnt think they are good enough they often get released and the majority of fans dont bat an eyelid if they are moved on.

it may just be a perception, but we have 2 young fowards making their names in the 1st team, and already being touted as off to the NRL. From a selfish point of view i'd love to see them at Wigan for years, but equally you cant knock the guys for wanting to challenge themselves in Oz and getting better paid for it

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 10:00 am  

You 100% can't blame them. They'll have likely been brought up dreaming of winning trophies for Wigan, but it's difficult for that to overcome the offer of vastly bigger wages and playing at the highest level.

Sadly I think as long as we continue to produce players who are good enough, we will continue to lose a decent percentage to the NRL. I don't think there's a Leeds or Saints model that we can adopt to convince them to stay. I'm pretty much resigned to KPP going at the end of his contract, but hopefully the noises about Havard extending for another few years are right. If we can keep him until he develops into an international class player, and keep Byrne and Smithies for the foreseeable too, then I' be happy with that.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 12:02 pm  

Anyone have any info on Billy Myers who started at 6 for Lancashire academy at the weekend? I hear Junior Nsemba and Harvie Hill both had strong games.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Mon May 16, 2022 12:12 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Undoubtedly this will turn into another "those Saints players aren't as good as Wigan's" type bore fest, but Saints have lost players.

Coote, Fages, Naiqama, Thompson & Bentley in the last 18 months alone. Before that, they weren't that great and we had our successful period, which put our lads in the spotlight.

That’s a fair assessment you tend to forget before Holbrook arrived how poor saints where for a period of time.