Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:09 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Sarginson and Gelling or as I called them Can’t Pass and Won’t Pass were part of the reasons why I gave my ST away in 2016 and 2017 and didn’t attend either of the finals we got to in those years.
Sarginson put in some decent if somewhat limited efforts at FB but I never rated him as a starting strike centre.
Williams and Gildart are better than anything we have so far for 2022 and their absence for me is to detriment to the quality of the squad.

I was a big fan of Sutton and never understood the criticism he got but would acknowledge I always thought there was actually a better player in him before his move to Australia than he displayed.

I agree with you that until the HB and Hardaker situations are finally resolved it’s difficult to assess the overall the squad.

The area for me where we appear to be in “make do” mode is at centre. We don’t have one single really decent centre (and I include Hardaker here) where we have some real pace and rapier attack but will be relying upon a more blunt approach and will look to bludgeon our way down the centres with no alternative on offer. Oh what I’d give for a George Carmont.

Seems like the club feel that we just need a half to complete the squad but the 3/4 line doesnt feel right to me. There's a bit of depth there, particularly if Hankinson stays. But next to no star quality and a lack of strike in the centres. I'm personally not a huge fan of Marshall - prone to defensive errors and too often dominated on the kick return. I acknowledge he is still likely the quickest player at the club though.

I'd be surprised if Thornley is more than a back up player but I'm sure there will be a clean slate for all under the new coach. Part of me thinks we should be looking at continuing the Miski/Hankinson partnership (which was pretty effective for London last year) with Hardaker and Bibby on the right. I think they're more likely though to go with Marshall and Bibby on the left with Hardaker and Miski on the right.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:24 pm  

I dont think our squad is as good as last year especially the backs

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:45 pm  

Pieman wrote:

I dont think our squad is as good as last year especially the backs

I’m not sure tbh. It possibly isn’t right now but sort a halfback out and it could be much better IMO. Realistically we’ve lost Hastings and not a great deal more. Gildart has been injured more often than not and didn’t look fit most of the time when he did play. Not much point talking about guys like Clubb, Clark and Bullock and Manfredi for varying reasons. We gain French and Field in many ways because they pretty much weren’t here as well, so that’s some extreme pace we’re adding.

To put a positive spin on it you could say we’ve brought in to the squad-

French, Field, Miski, Thornley, Ellis, Mago and hopefully a halfback

And lost

Hastings, a half fit Gildart and a few guys who never played.

Now things could get worse before they get better, if Hardaker and French walked through the door but keeping everything crossed we don’t lose them and comparing what a starting backline could be for 2022, to what our regular backline felt like in 2021 and we’re certainly no worse off-

2022

French
Miski Hardaker Bibby Marshall
New Halfback Tommy/Field/Smith

Standard 2021 backline

Hardaker
Halsall Isa Bibby Marshall
Smith Hastings

Don’t sort a halfback and lose Hardaker and things could feel very differently but fingers crossed the opposite happens, the two new props hit the ground running and we get a bit more luck on the injury front and I see no reason why we can’t improve considerably on this season, even if it’s just more entertaining and enjoyable but doesn’t end in trophies.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:03 pm  

You cant put French and Field in there as they may get injured game 1 this year, Miski isnt as good as Manfredi, Gilly is far better than Thornley and The props are unknowns really......and weve lost Hastings. We could get bad injuries again as we have the same medical team, Halsall? How many games did he play last year for it to be standard? Weve still not signed a half for next year so will go into it far weaker than last upto now, most of the good halves if not all have all signed now

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:29 pm  

Pieman wrote:

You cant put French and Field in there as they may get injured game 1 this year, Miski isnt as good as Manfredi, Gilly is far better than Thornley and The props are unknowns really......and weve lost Hastings. We could get bad injuries again as we have the same medical team, Halsall? How many games did he play last year for it to be standard? Weve still not signed a half for next year so will go into it far weaker than last upto now, most of the good halves if not all have all signed now

The standard part was basically to say it was disrupted all season, so be that Halsall wing, Hanley wing, Bibby wing, with Isa and Farrell at centre or even Shorrocks at centre in one game, we were never at full strength. I’m not sure what you mean about Field and French tbh. They weren’t fit last season and played about 5 games between them but they should be fit to start this season. They like anyone could get an injury, so we may as well say we don’t have a squad if we have to go on the assumption they all go down in round one. Miski isn’t as good as Manfredi? Granted I guess he’s not as good as prime Manfredi but it’s a guess and very sadly he’s definitely better than the Manfredi we’ve had for the last few seasons because that was either no Manfredi or a Manfredi clearly in agony. Again a fit Gildart is clearly better than Thornley (who may not play anyway) but he wasn’t fit last season and hasn’t been properly fit/match sharp for us since 2019. The props may be unknowns but the ones we knew of (the ones who have left) weren’t very good.

That leaves the halfback situation and I agree with you there. We’ve left that recruitment far too long and I’ve pointed out elsewhere I think it’s pretty unforgivable but I’m keeping my fingers crossed we pull something out the bag. If we do, I think we’re in a better place than 2021 and that’s before we move in to the fact that Lam didn’t get any improvement out of any of the existing players. There is at least 20% in every single one of them IMO.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:31 pm  

[quote="NickyKiss"]The standard part was basically to say it was disrupted all season, so be that Halsall wing, Hanley wing, Bibby wing, with Isa and Farrell at centre or even Shorrocks at centre in one game, we were never at full strength. I’m not sure what you mean about Field and French tbh. They weren’t fit last season and played about 5 games between them but they should be fit to start this season. They like anyone could get an injury, so we may as well say we don’t have a squad if we have to go on the assumption they all go down in round one. Miski isn’t as good as Manfredi? Granted I guess he’s not as good as prime Manfredi but it’s a guess and very sadly he’s definitely better than the Manfredi we’ve had for the last few seasons because that was either no Manfredi or a Manfredi clearly in agony. Again a fit Gildart is clearly better than Thornley (who may not play anyway) but he wasn’t fit last season and hasn’t been properly fit/match sharp for us since 2019. The props may be unknowns but the ones we knew of (the ones who have left) weren’t very good.

That leaves the halfback situation and I agree with you there. We’ve left that recruitment far too long and I’ve pointed out elsewhere I think it’s pretty unforgivable but I’m keeping my fingers crossed we pull something out the bag. If we do, I think we’re in a better place than 2021 and that’s before we move in to the fact that Lam didn’t get any improvement out of any of the existing players. There is at least 20% in every single one of them IMO.[/quote]

i agree with that but could be this year, If you put our strongest on paper at the start of this to last it is weaker

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:03 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I’m not sure tbh. It possibly isn’t right now but sort a halfback out and it could be much better IMO. Realistically we’ve lost Hastings and not a great deal more. Gildart has been injured more often than not and didn’t look fit most of the time when he did play. Not much point talking about guys like Clubb, Clark and Bullock and Manfredi for varying reasons. We gain French and Field in many ways because they pretty much weren’t here as well, so that’s some extreme pace we’re adding.

To put a positive spin on it you could say we’ve brought in to the squad-

French, Field, Miski, Thornley, Ellis, Mago and hopefully a halfback

And lost

Hastings, a half fit Gildart and a few guys who never played.

Now things could get worse before they get better, if Hardaker and French walked through the door but keeping everything crossed we don’t lose them and comparing what a starting backline could be for 2022, to what our regular backline felt like in 2021 and we’re certainly no worse off-

2022

French
Miski Hardaker Bibby Marshall
New Halfback Tommy/Field/Smith

Standard 2021 backline

Hardaker
Halsall Isa Bibby Marshall
Smith Hastings

Don’t sort a halfback and lose Hardaker and things could feel very differently but fingers crossed the opposite happens, the two new props hit the ground running and we get a bit more luck on the injury front and I see no reason why we can’t improve considerably on this season, even if it’s just more entertaining and enjoyable but doesn’t end in trophies.

Love your optimism and hope some of it can rub off on me.

Where’s the improvement in our kicking game though?
It’s been nigh extinct for a generation and as much as love TL defence hits and that he epitomises a great clubman his kicking game is zero, zilch, non existent.
I suspect non us know what Field really is. He could be a hidden gem or a crock of shoite.
If we don’t sign a new HB in all likelihood we have no kicking game. An area where we are I would argue worse than our go forward but yet, no announcement on how we propose to rectify this pretty alarming deficiency
We start off again with one arm tied behind our backs.

This is where I get frustrated with our long term recruitment policy. Fundamentals are just ignored or put on the hard step. We’eve signed 3 Aussies in 2 years who play HB or FB on good or mega wages but not one of them can/could kick from hand or kick goals when we’ve been screaming for both since 2013.
No disrespect to Miski or Thornley but they don’t overall improve our back line one iota nor do they bring additional skills sets one players who they’ve replaced.

I suspect Marshall is marmite for a lot of fans.
I’m in the I like him camp. I like my wingers to have pace and the confidence to use it.
I can’t think of one centre currently on our books who Marshall would love to link with because he can feed off him. Marshall has gone matches I’d argue seasons without any any decent ball. What’s the point of him? Stick Smithies on the wing if we want a guy to drive the ball in from our own half and can give the “middles” a breather.

What I’m getting at is how are we going to play? On paper it’s gonna be “tough”, low risk and prescriptive rugby. I personally don’t want or more specifically “need” rugby of that ilk
Lam’s “regime” was every man for himself with zero risk maybe because he thought that was their capabilities or more than than likely he hadn’t got a clue. At least we knew we were going to get shoite.

If someone had said to me say 3 years ago that our only recognised centre would be Thornley, that our new winger is an unproven championship player and we don’t have a single HB with an all round proven kicking game with less than 2 months before preseason I’d have thought he was taking the urine.

As I say hopefully your optimism proves to be the outcome rather than my pessimism but unless we sign a really good HB with a kicking game and a decent centre if Hardaker goes I’m still looking at at a squad that’s got much weaknesses as strengths. Hard work is a given for me and you can’t win without it however, on it’s own it isn’t enough to win consistently and win the games that really matter and that is where I think we may come unstuck

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:11 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

I've given you thirty four players who can cover 1st team and reserve grade. Some of those are academy players but I believe the academy is moving back to U18's next season, so the majority will be over age. At least twenty nine of that squad will be too old for the academy, maybe even a three more.

The academy and reserve grades will not play on the same weekend and the reserves will not play a full fixture list i.e home and away.

I don't know where you are getting the twenty seven man squad from as NO team has yet released their squads.

And when did Wigan last have a 1st team squad of 36 players?

At the moment, the first team squad following the departures and new signings for next season stands at 27 players, but does not include the annual promotion of players from the Academy who every season are given a first team squad shirt number which makes the first team training squad up to a figure of around 34 which you say or even 36 or so as I have said.

Until the full list of the squad with its allocated first team squad shirt numbers is announced, we are in the dark on what players, the club regard as being members of the first team training squad for next season.







As the club is now trying to sell season tickets, surely it makes sense to produce the list to give supporters confidence to buy a season ticket after the last poor season, but is the club holding back because of the rumours concerning the return of French and the future of Hardacre.

Might also expalain, why unlike other clubs, they have not yet produced the new shirt design for next season, especially when we are going into the build up to Christmas and next season will be the 150th Anniversity of the club.

The club may have sufficient players for all three levels of the game as you say, but all supporters want to see is the full list of the first team squad members and also the design of the shirt.

Why all the silence by the club on the squad and the shirt?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:21 am  

On paper our backs are not as strong as previous seasons however looking into it more deeply I think providing they stay fit they are.

Gildart is a fine player but I don’t think was ever really fit last year, possibly the season before. On those grounds a fit Bibby or Thornley is better than a crocked Gildart, Miski (who I think will be a find) is better than a crocked Manfredi.

I know Smith has struggled but last season he was a young half in a struggling team, he was it transpires also playing with an injured shoulder. Field is an unknown and Hastings will be a big miss.

The pack is certainly stronger, how much stronger remains to be seen.

I don’t expect us to win it next year but I do expect improvement.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:48 am  

MadDogg wrote:

Seems like the club feel that we just need a half to complete the squad but the 3/4 line doesnt feel right to me. There's a bit of depth there, particularly if Hankinson stays. But next to no star quality and a lack of strike in the centres. I'm personally not a huge fan of Marshall - prone to defensive errors and too often dominated on the kick return. I acknowledge he is still likely the quickest player at the club though.

I'd be surprised if Thornley is more than a back up player but I'm sure there will be a clean slate for all under the new coach. Part of me thinks we should be looking at continuing the Miski/Hankinson partnership (which was pretty effective for London last year) with Hardaker and Bibby on the right. I think they're more likely though to go with Marshall and Bibby on the left with Hardaker and Miski on the right.

To be fair there isn’t any cap space left if TL wasn’t included in cap figures the that KR gave at the forum so I suspect the squad could be complete unless players leave that aren’t announced yet.
I’d be surprised if there aren’t at least two or three players still to exit so hopefully another HB and centre could be in the offering.

We have depth across a few positions but the quality in many cases is unproven but I’m sure in a few cases I’m pretty sure the quality will come to fruition over the next few seasons.

Until the squad is finally announced on paper for me we look weaker in the backs but may have improved the forwards but still haven’t addressed our non existent kicking game.