Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:42 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

Look at the Goulding thread, its the same story. Both Goulding & Marsh don't get enough game time to improve. Wigan won the SL last year with comfort. We all thought these 3 ozzie signings would strengthen the squad, but have they?

Yes.

I think Goulding, Marsh, Farrell & Tuson are losing form and progress unnecessarily. Hence these threads appear scrutinising our younger players and its a sad shame, these lads would have been playin much better this year without the new signings, Lima being the exception due to Fieldens injury.

Probably they would, but the team would have been a lot worse. Farrell & Tuson have been getting plenty game time, in any case, and Goulding's already played almost 100 games for us.

Im not ignoring MOM performances I'm reminding you of the clubs ideals made last year, lets win the SL with local young talent. So give them a chance....

Who's keeping Marsh out? A Wigan lad (unless you're seriously suggesting dropping George).
Who's keeping Goulding out? Another Wigan lad (unless you're seriously suggesting dropping Pat).

Farrell & Tuson are competing against each other, unless you're saying they're better than Hoffman or Hansen.

Finch is a complete red herring, since we don't yet have a halfback ready to come in (Mellor is a great prospect, but not quite yet).

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:51 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

Look at the Saints they play & stick to their youth policy where we maybe losing sight of ours. Andy Gregory sits in our club and has nothing but praise for Finch, however he also reminds us that he himself never got signed by Wigan as a youth, because of the "stars" they already had in the team, it took a certain Mr Laughton to recognise his talents.
Lets make sure that never happens again and play some of these boys in the up and coming fixtures, remember these boys are playing for a place in the team, they have a point to prove, Also do you not want Great Britain to win anything? Wigan & Saints could build a GB between them with all the quality youngsters coming through. Also remember, Finch & the Hoff haven't won us anything yet, whereas Farrell, Goulding, Marsh & Tuson have. I rest my case

Losing sight of our youth policy? Are you being serious? I suggest you look at the quality of some of the young players in the first team squad, as well as the youth teams. By GB I presume you mean England? The success of the England team is not the responsibility of Wigan, the success of Wigan is! Yes Farrell, Goulding, Marsh and Tuson were part of the championship winning team, but Ricky Bibey has two challenge cup winners medals, four players does not a team make. Should we have kept Ainscough, Bailey and Palea'aesina as they were in the championship winning squad? We should play the strongest team we can in every game in order to win, this is professional sport not an after school club. If a player is good enough they play, if not they wait for their chance. I would love an all English Wigan team, but if we don't have 20+ English players good enough, I'd rather we play the best team can in order to win games and titles.

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:52 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

Look at the Saints they play & stick to their youth policy where we maybe losing sight of ours.

Saints have started a transition period and are gambling on a lot of unproven youth, we tried the same between 2003-2006 and it didn't work because of the lack of experience and quality in key positions. Wigan are in a position of strength and real contenders to win honours for a good while, but you need experienced players to supplement the talented youth we have.

Andy Gregory sits in our club and has nothing but praise for Finch, however he also reminds us that he himself never got signed by Wigan as a youth, because of the "stars" they already had in the team, it took a certain Mr Laughton to recognise his talents.

The unpredictability of youth development, the salary cap and the hotbed of raw talent in Wigan will always mean that one or two slip the net. We've also had some decent non-Wigan youth players that we've pinched from under the noses of other clubs (i.e, J. Robinson and McIllorum).

Lets make sure that never happens again and play some of these boys in the up and coming fixtures, remember these boys are playing for a place in the team, they have a point to prove, Also do you not want Great Britain to win anything? Wigan & Saints could build a GB between them with all the quality youngsters coming through. Also remember, Finch & the Hoff haven't won us anything yet, whereas Farrell, Goulding, Marsh & Tuson have. I rest my case

Playing youngsters that aren't at the same level as experienced players and don't have the potential to be anything above average won't help Wigan or England. My priorities remain with what is best for Wigan and I think the league table tells the story. Bit harsh to evaluate Hoff and Finch based on an incomplete season and also completely inaccurate to suggest Farrell, Marsh and Tuson were major reasons for Wigan's previous success. Goulding I'll let you have, but with the caveat that he was flattered by the quality of Gleeson on his inside. Charnley is a much better player already.

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:55 pm  

You make excellent points.
Tomkins is no centre, so play Marsh. Rest the HOff against Wakey & Bradford play Joel & Tuson. Let tehm get some game time

If Finch gets injured then we play Sam, at that point you may have to play charnley at FB or another youngster.
Goulding scored as many tries as Pat last year so why drop him? Is it because Joel doesn't give him the assurance in defence or anythin to feed from in attack ? (see the Goulding thread)
We need to address the lack strength and depth in the quarters & the salary cap, and everyone is supporting the Ozzie signings Its mind bogglin.
We need to compete with Saints and stick to the policy on local talent.

Its a good discussion, but doesn't if feel that much better when a wiganer scores the winner against the Saints?

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:11 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

We need to compete with Saints and stick to the policy on local talent.

How many of Saints local talent are going to make it as international class? Lomax and ...the rest are extremely questionable. They also have a dearth of emerging talent and quality in the forwards, the likes of Ashurst, Dixon, Macgennis, etc, are barely SL quality, nevermind the foundation for SL success. We had superior forward potential in the likes of Lockers, Hock and Hansen in our poor period and still struggled. I fail to see how Saints are the current benchmark to follow.

Its a good discussion, but doesn't if feel that much better when a wiganer scores the winner against the Saints?

It does, but not at the expense of a Wiganer scoring in a heavy defeat to Saints due to the lack of experience and quality, and an unwillingness to look for talent and experience beyond the Wigan Borough boundary.

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 7:56 pm  

Dave26 wrote:

I'd rather we play the best team can in order to win games and titles.

We used to do that and we went bankrupt

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:13 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

We used to do that and we went bankrupt

I meant the best team out of our squad and within our budget and restrictions. We should put out the best team possible, anything else should come second.

Re: stefan marsh : Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:55 pm  

Mash Butty wrote:

Look at the Goulding thread, its the same story. Both Goulding & Marsh don't get enough game time to improve. Wigan won the SL last year with comfort. We all thought these 3 ozzie signings would strengthen the squad, but have they?
I think Goulding, Marsh, Farrell & Tuson are losing form and progress unnecessarily. Hence these threads appear scrutinising our younger players and its a sad shame, these lads would have been playin much better this year without the new signings, Lima being the exception due to Fieldens injury.
Im not ignoring MOM performances I'm reminding you of the clubs ideals made last year, lets win the SL with local young talent. So give them a chance....

I am not being funny but rugby is not a sentimental game. Players are in the squad on merit, Carmont has been the best centre in SL this season and Charnley has been exceptional and has twice the potential goulding has.

The 3 signings have been brilliant, hoffman has added another dimention to our second row and is streets ahead of both farrell and tuson, lima has been class and finch has settled into the team very well and has produced some excellent performances over the last 2 months.

The players ahead of the young talent are better players, I would rather trust the coaches judgement than yours personally but hey if we won the super league this year with sam,joel,charnley,mcillorum,hansen,lockers,mossop,hock,prescott all in the run on squad weve not done bad for a team who apparently dont use local talent.

Re: stefan marsh : Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:25 pm  

Is this a wind up?

Re: stefan marsh : Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:47 pm  

I'm going to eat humble pie over finch i thought he was cack but this last month he's been nothing short of outstanding