: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:23 am  

[quote="Big Steve"]Bailey gets a very bad press by lots of fans - but looking at the stats from the wakefield game on the Sl site he made 39 tackles (missed only 1), far more yards per carry than most of the other forwards and only made 1 mistake.

He may not be as explosive as some would like, but he does the hard stuff - and is one of the few players who knows how to slow the ptb down. This is a very important skill as it means he takes a great deal of pressure off the next defence for the next tackle, allowing them to get set.

He's the sort of player who makes you hard to beat but doesn't catch the eye.

spot on, someone has to do the dirty work

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:34 am  

Should go with tomkins, hansen, locky, with hock on bench, put bailey back in centres till pryce is fit!

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:38 am  

Big Steve wrote:

Bailey gets a very bad press by lots of fans - but looking at the stats from the wakefield game on the Sl site he made 39 tackles (missed only 1), far more yards per carry than most of the other forwards and only made 1 mistake.

He may not be as explosive as some would like, but he does the hard stuff - and is one of the few players who knows how to slow the ptb down. This is a very important skill as it means he takes a great deal of pressure off the next defence for the next tackle, allowing them to get set.

He's the sort of player who makes you hard to beat but doesn't catch the eye.

Coley by comparison - as a prop, made less carries, less yards, less tackles and more mistakes- and probably deserves most of teh flak he is getting.

Slagging Bailey off just shows people up for having a very 1 dimensional view of the game - there are far more important things to improve before him.

Whoever does the stats got that one wrong for a start, he was skinned twice or do they not count the ones that he never lays a hand on the opposition player, a miss which lead to a crucial try for Wakefield.

I agree in what you say, i just do not think it applies to Bailey anymore, we have Hock and Locky who are more than happy to and capable of doing the dirty work. Tomkins at 13 for his handling. Hock on the bench for his impact, backrow sorted in my opinion.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:38 am  

I suspect Pryce will not be fit enough to play centre for quite some time - probably 1/2 way through the season I suspect his appearance will be on the wing for a while. So should we have Bailey at centre that long - I think not. Bailey is better as a starting 2nd row to keep things tight then interchange wth someone like Hock.

If we are going to make change at centre then Goulding should be given a chance - personally I wqould go with Richards, Roberts,Carmont , Goulding and either Phelps or Ainscough as a back line. With Pryce as cover.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:42 am  

Big Steve wrote:

Bailey gets a very bad press by lots of fans - but looking at the stats from the wakefield game on the Sl site he made 39 tackles (missed only 1), far more yards per carry than most of the other forwards and only made 1 mistake.

He may not be as explosive as some would like, but he does the hard stuff - and is one of the few players who knows how to slow the ptb down. This is a very important skill as it means he takes a great deal of pressure off the next defence for the next tackle, allowing them to get set.

He's the sort of player who makes you hard to beat but doesn't catch the eye.

Slagging Bailey off just shows people up for having a very 1 dimensional view of the game - there are far more important things to improve before him.

As a big Bailey critic I can't see how supporters can be content with just a good defensive display. You talk about 'one dimensional view of the game' but surely this is what you're doing by being satisfied by just his defensive side of his game? How many times do you see Bailey running good angles off the halfbacks, making breaks, seeing him in space and linking up with the backs? On the few occaisions he does link up with backs he stops the flow of play and fails to create opportunities.

What did Bailey do different on Sunday that Harrison Hansen can't? IMO Hansen is a better attacking player, especially when in close radius to the opposition tryline.

Hansen was sat on the bench for too long on Sunday and it's shame considering it was for the expence of Bailey.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:02 am  

Alex BP' wrote:

As a big Bailey critic I can't see how supporters can be content with just a good defensive display. You talk about 'one dimensional view of the game' but surely this is what you're doing by being satisfied by just his defensive side of his game? How many times do you see Bailey running good angles off the halfbacks, making breaks, seeing him in space and linking up with the backs? On the few occaisions he does link up with backs he stops the flow of play and fails to create opportunities.

What did Bailey do different on Sunday that Harrison Hansen can't? IMO Hansen is a better attacking player, especially when in close radius to the opposition tryline.

Hansen was sat on the bench for too long on Sunday and it's shame considering it was for the expence of Bailey.

Ideally I'd like him to be explosive in attack and a workaholic in defence - unfortunately there aren't many 2nd rows like that.

He makes us alot harder to beat when he's in the team. Not just the tackling he does but his technique in allowing the defence to get set is far better than most at wigan. There is room for both Hansen and Bailey.

The main point though, is that replacing Bailey with Hansen say WILL NOT improve our team and results. There are far more important issues to resolve at Wigan than criticising Bailey for his lack of attack. IMO it makes us look stupid when we slag off players just because they are aussies or are easy targets, rather than looking at their actual contribution to the team and where the fundamental problems lie.

For example - we would be a much improved team;

If we were to have more runners at the ptb for a start, making it harder for the defence to pick the runner - we make more ground and we get a quicker ptb.
If we were to give our ball carriers more options - we put doubt in the defence.
If we were to cut out the number of errors we make - we play in a better field position.
If our players were the fittest in the league.
If we used the bench properly - with impact players on it and a proper plan for rotating the hooker.

These are fundamental things that will improve wigan as a team. Swapping Bailey out of the team will probably make us easier to beat.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:11 am  

Big Steve wrote:

Ideally I'd like him to be explosive in attack and a workaholic in defence - unfortunately there aren't many 2nd rows like that.

I prepare to get shot down, but we have one in Sean O'Loughlin.

Having Bailey out on pitch for the majority of the game stunts our attacking power. What's the point in replacing him with another defensive player in Harrison Hansen who IMO is a better player? If we drop Bailey and start Hansen it gives us another attacking option off the bench, something that we're missing at the moment.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:22 am  

I would have Hansen on the pitch before Bailey anytime at the moment. For me Bailey is not the player we thought we were getting when we signed him.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:08 am  

Hansen
O'Loughlin
Joel

S - Hock

with 2 props and a back.

: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:12 am  

AJ wrote:

Hansen
O'Loughlin
Joel

S - Hock

with 2 props and a back.

Bingo.

Hansen - Defence
O'Loughlin - Attack/Defence
Tomkins - Attack

Hock - Impact

Although he needs to improve generally, Andy Coley can switch between both positions and gives us versatility and options.