: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:12 pm  

shaun mcrae is prob sl's best all round coach

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:23 pm  

The problem is less of coaching than playing personnel (although it's true that the coach must bear responsibility for recruitment - provided he is the sole recruiter).

The Wigan team has no obvious and consistent "spine" through 1, 6, 7, 9 & 13 (almost always the most influential players) and thus no guidance - via it - around the pitch. This puts enormous pressure on the coach to ensure all plays are executed correctly from the touchline.

With a consistent spine (if albeit a modestly talented one) these key players take up the slack and the coach is free to work on those added extras which give the team its 'edge'.

To be frank, I doubt even Wayne Bennett himself could make much headway with this team.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:28 pm  

Doesnt matter but the fans are voting with their feet already, 12,000 last night will surely be a shock to IL. Lose a few more with that kind of effort and his hand will be forced. I think the rumours of Radders being welcomed back to the club in some capacity is a good move but Tony Smith was also at the game last night. 2 plus 2 might = 5 on that one but its along way to travel to watch a game of rugby im asuming hes living in Yorkshire.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:38 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

The problem is less of coaching than playing personnel (although it's true that the coach must bear responsibility for recruitment - provided he is the sole recruiter).

The Wigan team has no obvious and consistent "spine" through 1, 6, 7, 9 & 13

To be frank, I doubt even Wayne Bennett himself could make much headway with this team.

I think half the problem is coaching. Wayne Bennett had LuLu at 9 in the world cup. His best position many would agree. Smith is a 7 not a 6. Bennett probably wouldn't let Mathers anywhere near one of his teams. Bennett would probably play Pat 1, Amos 2, Pryce 3, George 4, Ainscough 5, Sam 6, Smith 7 Lulu 9. Noble needs to realise this and then maybe we could have a "spine".

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:31 pm  

ian-m wrote:

I think half the problem is coaching. Wayne Bennett had LuLu at 9 in the world cup. His best position many would agree.

And he also had a squad of hard-bitten NRL veterans (and prospects that put ours to shame) at his disposal to sprinkle alongside him. Even in relative terms Wigan aren't so fortunate. You can't construct an argument to justify moving TL to hooker (the only consistent vertibrae in Wigan's creaking spine) on the basis of the World Cup. It's faulty reasoning based on a erroneous premise.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:33 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

And he also had a squad of hard-bitten NRL veterans (and prospects that put ours to shame) at his disposal to sprinkle alongside him. Even in relative terms Wigan aren't so fortunate. You can't construct an argument to justify moving TL to hooker (the only consistent vertibrae in Wigan's creaking spine) on the basis of the World Cup. It's faulty reasoning based on a erroneous premise.

Well he is crap at half back

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:43 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

The problem is less of coaching than playing personnel (although it's true that the coach must bear responsibility for recruitment - provided he is the sole recruiter).

The Wigan team has no obvious and consistent "spine" through 1, 6, 7, 9 & 13 (almost always the most influential players) and thus no guidance - via it - around the pitch. This puts enormous pressure on the coach to ensure all plays are executed correctly from the touchline.

With a consistent spine (if albeit a modestly talented one) these key players take up the slack and the coach is free to work on those added extras which give the team its 'edge'.

To be frank, I doubt even Wayne Bennett himself could make much headway with this team.

Agreed those 5 positions literally change every week there is no consistancy.

When Wigan were one of the top 2 teams in super league we had - Radlinski , O'neill , Lam , Newton and Farrell occupying those 5 pivitol positions.

Now our fullback changes every week. Richie Mathers is a complete waste of space - he can't deal with kicks - never mind organise our defensive lines.

Tim Smith is not a stand off. He made his name as a scrum half - nevertheless he is too hit and miss. From his kicking on the last tackle to his general play. Plus he is a liability in defense. There's no point him screaming at other players to sort themselves out when he's the one missing tackles and allowing the opposition to make breaks. He will cost us more points than he will score/create for us.

Thomas Leuluai is the only consistant player for us. But even he at halfback isn't good enough to lead the team on their own like Trent Barrett could. His general kicking game needs improvement but when he is close to the opponents line he is a very dangerous player.

Mark Riddell has just not settled in yet. He looks unfit as well - early signs are not good on his part. I hope he can live up to this reputation that he came over with. He looks a fool whenever he does thats salute when he takes a kick then sends it into the west stand. He just has kn*b written all over his forehead.

Then there's Sean O'loughlin the final piece that fits our awful jigsaw. IMO he is a better second rower than a loose forward. Joel Tomkins/Gareth Hock are more effective in that position than Sean O'loughlin. I'm not saying he's a bad player but when he played for GB he was picked at second row and he played some fantastic plays at second row. Gareth Hock is more creative IMO than Lockers and would be better suited to the loose forward . Same applies for Joel Tomkins.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:51 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

I am going to enjoy digging this thread out in October


We do have a problem at Wigan, but I don't think it lies with the coaching staff.

Oh my god man get your head out of the sand or BN booty!! FFS

My god what does Noble have to do 2 be sacked!! I'm sick to death of watching this shower of $h!t each week! And guess what it's 90% all BN fault!

Imagine what a good coach could do with the likes of;

Richards(top points scorer 2 seasons in a row top & NRL top try scorer)
Carmont(dream team centre)
Ainscough(What a talent this kid has. Can't wait to see him get worse under BN as all good wingers do under him )
Roberts(scored everywhere but Wigan)
Smith(Daily M YP scrum half not a 6. Take note Noble)
S.Tomkins(The best player of his age group. When we gonna see him?)
Lockers(MOM for GB in the 2nd row when utilised as he should be. )
J.Tomkins(young player of the year runner up last season and he's on the bench? Add to that our top forward try scorer 2)
Hansen(in the top three defensive 2nd row's in SL!)
Fielden(never gonna get dropped by his bum chum needs a kick up the booty. Will Noble honestly do this?)
Tommy L( almost the MOM in a WC final from Hooker! Why not play him there)
Feka & Hock(the two best impact players in SL imo. Are we honestly making the most of them?)

The back room staff is a joke 2. Its jobs for the boys all under Noble. Can we honestly say we have any of the best coaches in SL? Our players look lethargic and unfit in some cases. This is not acceptable for any SL team never mind Wigan.

Is BN really pushing this team to maximise its undoubted potential? Where is the innovation, the raising of the bar to the highest standards or the never say die attitude that all successful teams have to have? Where is the consistency from week to week or the winning streaks that we never go on?

Please people get your head out of the sand! Noble is out of the depth by a long, long way.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:52 pm  

And imagine what Noble can do if the players don't drop balls, miss tackles, give away stupid penalties, etc.

: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:57 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

And he also had a squad of hard-bitten NRL veterans (and prospects that put ours to shame) at his disposal to sprinkle alongside him. Even in relative terms Wigan aren't so fortunate. You can't construct an argument to justify moving TL to hooker (the only consistent vertibrae in Wigan's creaking spine) on the basis of the World Cup. It's faulty reasoning based on a erroneous premise.

I am not constructing an argument to justify moving Lulu to hooker. I believe on the performances I have seen from him at hooker, that has been his best position as of late. Whatever players he has around him does not detract from the fact that 9 is probably his best position. If he has cr@p players around him, it does not matter whether he is at 7 or 9 he will still have cr@p players around him.