Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Oct 30, 2020 7:49 am  

MattyB wrote:

Why are you switching goalposts? That's a totally different conversation.

Re: Academy players promoted to first team squad for 'next' season? Won't that be when the squad is announced during the off season?

Current first team fringe players 'never been selected' leaving? wouldn't that depend on their professional contracts?

I really don't understand your game, which seems to be looking for problems within the club that aren't necessarily there. Let's also not distract from the fact that the covid pandemic has disrupted the sport at levels not seen since World War 2 (War leagues... etc) at this rate we will be lucky to finish the season.

No crowds next season probably (therefore no gate receipts revenue, less sponsorship) massive problems to overcome within the game for all clubs and yet we see progress being made with new signings but you're still not happy.

Are you actually still a fan of this club or just someone who used to be during the golden era and its all gone downhill since then?

Yes, I am still a fan and have been for fifty years, even during the bad times of seventies when I started to support the club. Not just in the golden era of the late eighties and early nighties or jumping on a bandwagon of success like a few in Wigan have over the years. True fans support the club during thick and thin and just when a club is winning!

Seeing that you seemed to know a lot about player movement at Wigan, I was merely enquiring if you were aware of what players from this season's Under 16 and under 18 squads who have never played a game are either moving up or leaving the club and the case of the fringe players in the first team squad who have also never played a game also will be leaving the club.

It's not rocket science to realised that if the club has recruited seventeen new players for the Under 16's next season and all players at each level will be a year older, there be possibly more than the normal number of players leaving the club. Perhaps even the loan players like Navarette at Wakefield and Mullen/Woods at Leigh.

Can nobody ask a civil question now?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Oct 30, 2020 11:56 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

Yes, I am still a fan and have been for fifty years, even during the bad times of seventies when I started to support the club. Not just in the golden era of the late eighties and early nighties or jumping on a bandwagon of success like a few in Wigan have over the years. True fans support the club during thick and thin and just when a club is winning!

Seeing that you seemed to know a lot about player movement at Wigan, I was merely enquiring if you were aware of what players from this season's Under 16 and under 18 squads who have never played a game are either moving up or leaving the club and the case of the fringe players in the first team squad who have also never played a game also will be leaving the club.

It's not rocket science to realised that if the club has recruited seventeen new players for the Under 16's next season and all players at each level will be a year older, there be possibly more than the normal number of players leaving the club. Perhaps even the loan players like Navarette at Wakefield and Mullen/Woods at Leigh.

Can nobody ask a civil question now?

The club regularly year on year recruits 15-20 players into the academy. It isn’t new. Naturally they lose players over the course of the season for one reason or another and at seasons end there’s always a few released. That’s sport, that happens at every pro club irrespective of sport up and down the country.

You can ask questions but it’s abundantly clear you’re asking them devoid of common sense looking for an answer so you can retort with “AHA I told you so!”

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Oct 30, 2020 12:37 pm  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

Yes, I am still a fan and have been for fifty years, even during the bad times of seventies when I started to support the club. Not just in the golden era of the late eighties and early nighties or jumping on a bandwagon of success like a few in Wigan have over the years. True fans support the club during thick and thin and just when a club is winning!

Seeing that you seemed to know a lot about player movement at Wigan, I was merely enquiring if you were aware of what players from this season's Under 16 and under 18 squads who have never played a game are either moving up or leaving the club and the case of the fringe players in the first team squad who have also never played a game also will be leaving the club.

It's not rocket science to realised that if the club has recruited seventeen new players for the Under 16's next season and all players at each level will be a year older, there be possibly more than the normal number of players leaving the club. Perhaps even the loan players like Navarette at Wakefield and Mullen/Woods at Leigh.

Can nobody ask a civil question now?

I started watching Wigan in 81, just after they came back up from Div 2.
My first match came off the back of five defeats so a good few years before the golden era of the late 80's and early 90's. Does this make me more of a "true fan" than someone who has only supported the club since we've been at the DW? Absolutely not.

Old Rogues has been watching Wigan home and away since 1901 does this make him a "true" fan more than yourself? Absolutely not, that's crazy talk.

With regards to next season...... Will there even be a next season? We all bloody hope so. I'm not just talking about Wigan, I'm talking about our opponents, without a few of them there is no SL.
We are already hearing that the new SKY TV offer is 30% less than previous (worth approx £10m I believe).

No match day revenue as its expected no supporters till next September at least (which is more or less the end of 2021 season bar playoffs).

Is IL making plans to ensure the club survives this? I'd like to think so, if that means cutting back some of the wages/making savings where we can then so be it. No different to any business looking to survive next year (mine included).

Can we expect all other 11 SL clubs, Championship and League One clubs will do the same to survive? I hope so, I want the sport to survive, continue and then grow.

Can we expect casualties? Unfortunately I think there will be, we are a sport that has always lived on a shoestring. It's inevitable.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:53 pm  

Just to add to my post, just seen this. Yes it's our main rival and we could easily scoff but news like this is heartbreaking. https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2020/10/29/o ... leston-mp/ St.Helens R.F.C. are reigning Super League champions. We’re proud of that. We are one of the oldest Rugby League clubs in the country; a local business that has worked hard to ensure that we are well managed, well run and operate as a caring, responsible employer. And we’re just as proud of this. We are a major employer in St Helens. In fact – St Helens Rugby League Club is the biggest employer in Rugby League. We are now managing job losses in our club family – some of which could have been avoided with clearer, consistent, and timely decision making by policy makers – and which will have a profound impact on our town. The reality of the inconsistency of Government decision making has serious consequences. We are closed. Closed to events, parties, conferences, lunches and dinners. St.Helens R.F.C. has now lost over £1m in non-match day ‘hospitality and events’ revenue. This is non-recoverable and is growing materially every day. The club has accessed CJRS (‘furlough’) relief where possible and this is welcomed, as it has been at businesses nationwide. The club has already submitted a loan application to Government. However, as a club which built its own stadium, runs it properly and employs its people directly – we have been prevented from further accessing support that would have been available if the business was structured differently. Whilst navigating the reliefs and mitigations is complicated, the result of this is straightforward – it is the heartbreak of local people losing their jobs. Despite the fact that the stadium is closed to all but the hosting of behind closed doors games, our business cannot access the ‘Closed’ Job Support Scheme (JSS). Yet we are a hospitality business. Due to the fact that we employ all who work here – specifically our catering colleagues – we have been unable to access business reliefs which are available to outsourced hospitality services. Perversely, we are being discriminated against due to our investment into our business and into our local people. Despite employing scores of local people in catering, events, bar and other hospitality roles – and selling thousands of meals and drinks in an ordinary year – we cannot be classed as a hospitality business. Hospitality businesses have job protection and can access 15% VAT relief. By employing everyone at St.Helens R.F.C. our corporate structure now results in huge disadvantage. And ultimately the loss of more local jobs than may have otherwise been the case. The new Job Support Scheme was announced three weeks ago. However, there is considerable inconsistency in what has been delivered for ‘Open’ JSS last week and what formed that initial announcement. In that intervening period as we awaited details (which we now find are quite different from that initial information), we took decisions which impact on people’s employment and livelihoods. Stability and rational decision making are required by all – and this includes policy makers. Businesses simply cannot do the best thing by their employees when given little or no notice of fundamental changes. This is not abstract. This is real people losing their employment through no fault of their own, in a town where jobs are extremely difficult to find and mental health and other health inequalities are some of the most challenging in the country. It is extremely serious and as a club we are heart broken. The club appreciates the continued support of local MP’s – Marie Rimmer MP and Conor McGinn MP. Whilst we are grateful that the club will receive a grant via St Helens Council from the Liverpool City Region Business Recovery Fund, that is dwarfed by the size of the challenge we face to protect our hospitality colleagues’ roles. The Chancellor has said ‘we cannot save every job’. Sadly, we all know that is probably right. But where a good employer is fighting tooth and nail to save them and jobs are being lost due to inflexibility, inconsistent categorisation of businesses, and last-minute changes in Government schemes – we have to speak out. Lives and livelihoods are literally at stake. Kind Regards Mike Rush Chief Executive St.Helens R.F.C.

Just to add to my post, just seen this. Yes it's our main rival and we could easily scoff but news like this is heartbreaking. https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2020/10/29/o ... leston-mp/ St.Helens R.F.C. are reigning Super League champions. We’re proud of that. We are one of the oldest Rugby League clubs in the country; a local business that has worked hard to ensure that we are well managed, well run and operate as a caring, responsible employer. And we’re just as proud of this. We are a major employer in St Helens. In fact – St Helens Rugby League Club is the biggest employer in Rugby League. We are now managing job losses in our club family – some of which could have been avoided with clearer, consistent, and timely decision making by policy makers – and which will have a profound impact on our town. The reality of the inconsistency of Government decision making has serious consequences. We are closed. Closed to events, parties, conferences, lunches and dinners. St.Helens R.F.C. has now lost over £1m in non-match day ‘hospitality and events’ revenue. This is non-recoverable and is growing materially every day. The club has accessed CJRS (‘furlough’) relief where possible and this is welcomed, as it has been at businesses nationwide. The club has already submitted a loan application to Government. However, as a club which built its own stadium, runs it properly and employs its people directly – we have been prevented from further accessing support that would have been available if the business was structured differently. Whilst navigating the reliefs and mitigations is complicated, the result of this is straightforward – it is the heartbreak of local people losing their jobs. Despite the fact that the stadium is closed to all but the hosting of behind closed doors games, our business cannot access the ‘Closed’ Job Support Scheme (JSS). Yet we are a hospitality business. Due to the fact that we employ all who work here – specifically our catering colleagues – we have been unable to access business reliefs which are available to outsourced hospitality services. Perversely, we are being discriminated against due to our investment into our business and into our local people. Despite employing scores of local people in catering, events, bar and other hospitality roles – and selling thousands of meals and drinks in an ordinary year – we cannot be classed as a hospitality business. Hospitality businesses have job protection and can access 15% VAT relief. By employing everyone at St.Helens R.F.C. our corporate structure now results in huge disadvantage. And ultimately the loss of more local jobs than may have otherwise been the case. The new Job Support Scheme was announced three weeks ago. However, there is considerable inconsistency in what has been delivered for ‘Open’ JSS last week and what formed that initial announcement. In that intervening period as we awaited details (which we now find are quite different from that initial information), we took decisions which impact on people’s employment and livelihoods. Stability and rational decision making are required by all – and this includes policy makers. Businesses simply cannot do the best thing by their employees when given little or no notice of fundamental changes. This is not abstract. This is real people losing their employment through no fault of their own, in a town where jobs are extremely difficult to find and mental health and other health inequalities are some of the most challenging in the country. It is extremely serious and as a club we are heart broken. The club appreciates the continued support of local MP’s – Marie Rimmer MP and Conor McGinn MP. Whilst we are grateful that the club will receive a grant via St Helens Council from the Liverpool City Region Business Recovery Fund, that is dwarfed by the size of the challenge we face to protect our hospitality colleagues’ roles. The Chancellor has said ‘we cannot save every job’. Sadly, we all know that is probably right. But where a good employer is fighting tooth and nail to save them and jobs are being lost due to inflexibility, inconsistent categorisation of businesses, and last-minute changes in Government schemes – we have to speak out. Lives and livelihoods are literally at stake. Kind Regards Mike Rush Chief Executive St.Helens R.F.C.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Oct 31, 2020 12:08 am  

100% Warrior wrote:

The club regularly year on year recruits 15-20 players into the academy. It isn’t new. Naturally they lose players over the course of the season for one reason or another and at seasons end there’s always a few released. That’s sport, that happens at every pro club irrespective of sport up and down the country.

You can ask questions but it’s abundantly clear you’re asking them devoid of common sense looking for an answer so you can retort with “AHA I told you so!”

If there is no Reserve League again next season, it is obvious that more players then normal may have to leave the club, especially at those clubs like Wigan who have large squads at each level. As there is no news coming out of the club on the fringe players of the first team squad and all the players in the under 18 and under 16 squads, how are we to know who exactly is still at the club and who have already been released, especially with seventeen more players signed for next season's under 16 squad,.

In the recent home game against St Helens, first team finge players like Barren, Holcroft, Sculthorpe, Stone, Tyrer etc were not considered for selection and with the report that Holcroft has been signed by another club, it looks like the cull of players from all three squads has already been going on for a while.

And yes, I am also well aware that every season the club signs and releases players, but with the present pandemic situation, another possible season of no reserve league and a tighter financial situation, things may not be the same as some supporters seemed to think they are where the paying of all players is concerned.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:15 am  

With talk of a national lock down from Wednesday it makes sense to present the top team with both the League Leaders Shield and SL trophy.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:34 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Thanks for the update Marty
I hope that both lads make the grade

As a club we’ve been spoiled by great players but I must admit that local lads do pull at the old heart strings more

SOL - best pound for pound tackler I’ve ever seen. Hands of gold
Kris Radlinski - ultimate professional
Terry Newton- would die for the badge
Andy Greg - named my youngest after him. Maverick. Loved him
Andy and Liam Farrell- so consistently good it’s freakish
Bill Ashurst - if he played today he would be the the best forward in the world
Norman Cherrington - best cover tackle ever at Wembley
Ernie Ashcroft - a wingers dream and a gentleman. When I had the pleasure to meet him it changed my view on how I watched the game
Sam Tomkins - simply brilliant in 2012. The best ever player brought through the ranks for me
Ted Bradshaw - me dad’s favourite. If he was that good for my owd feller he must have been summarily special
Joe Burgess- he wa that good when he came on the scene
Ken Gee - hated Aussies and hard as nails
Billy Boston - so good he was adopted as a Wiganer

I’m embarrassed to say I’ve omitted dozens of brilliant players. We’ve been lucky

I think you meant Tommy Bradshaw?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:39 pm  

MattyB wrote:

With talk of a national lock down from Wednesday it makes sense to present the top team with both the League Leaders Shield and SL trophy.

Spot on matty!!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:40 pm  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

The scouts perhaps could do better locally when good class players like, Ben Currie, Tommy Makinson Stefan Ratchford etc and more recently Jack Welsby have decided to sign for other clubs, rather than Wigan.

Welsby wasn't interested in signing for Wigan he only wanted to sign for Saints, anyone at Shevington Sharks will tell you that. Players have a right to choose!

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:44 pm  

Sweaty Betty's wrote:

Welsby wasn't interested in signing for Wigan he only wanted to sign for Saints, anyone at Shevington Sharks will tell you that. Players have a right to choose!

Stop bringing facts in to the debate. Don’t you know they’re not welcome and anyone who plays rugby in the WN postcode should want to play for Wigan and only Wigan!