Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:31 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

It always pains me to hear crap like this from so-called Wigan fans.

I've been watching Wigan since the mid-1960s and involved with the amateur game on and off since the mid-1970s, and I've never heard this comment made once when it wasn't maliciously intended.

Yes, sometimes young players are advised not to play for such and such a club, but that is nearly always because someone else wants them at their club instead. About ten years ago, a friend of my grandson who plays locally was the victim of several persuasive attempts by his own family to sign for Warrington rather than Wigan because they'd supposedly heard this, that and the other about life at the DW, and it turned out that his family, despite living in Wigan, were all die-hard Wire fans (even though they apparently never went watching, which says it all for me).

I do worry about you, sometimes, RD. The way you craftily slipped that unprovable comment in there ... it was just the kind of thing I'd expect to read about Wigan on Red Vee.

Plus some make the decision based on who else is at the club. Would Stef Ratchford have had the career he has had if he was competing with Sam Tomkins for the 6 shirt at Wigan academy, and later Wigan first team? Maybe he would have found a way, but I think signing for Salford where he was more likely to break into the first team has massively benefited him. Doesn't mean the club did anything wrong.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:14 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Plus some make the decision based on who else is at the club. Would Stef Ratchford have had the career he has had if he was competing with Sam Tomkins for the 6 shirt at Wigan academy, and later Wigan first team? Maybe he would have found a way, but I think signing for Salford where he was more likely to break into the first team has massively benefited him. Doesn't mean the club did anything wrong.

I suspect more than a minor amount of hindsight as well. It is always easier to bemoan the ones that got away when they go on to other clubs and become top players than the many ones who never go on to reach the heights - for every Ratchford there is a Hampshire (even though he has gone on to have a reasonable career without really hitting the next level) or even someone who no one ever hears of again or ends up playing championship level or below.

I bet for all clubs you will find a long list of players from that area who never got picked up by the local club but went on to be top players elsewhere, it happens. No club selection/scouting system is perfect.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:15 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Plus some make the decision based on who else is at the club. Would Stef Ratchford have had the career he has had if he was competing with Sam Tomkins for the 6 shirt at Wigan academy, and later Wigan first team? Maybe he would have found a way, but I think signing for Salford where he was more likely to break into the first team has massively benefited him. Doesn't mean the club did anything wrong.

Absolutely. I would like to think he would have found a place at Wigan but in reality the chances are that he would have been moved on anyway. It certainly worked out better for him. Just because players “make it” at one club doesn’t necessarily mean they would have made it at their ‘home’ club.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:40 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Currie and Makinson both played for Wigan scholarship so that's nothing to do with the scouts.

So who decides on them being good enough to be signed for the scholarship, if not the scouts?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:07 am  

Cruncher wrote:

It always pains me to hear crap like this from so-called Wigan fans.

I've been watching Wigan since the mid-1960s and involved with the amateur game on and off since the mid-1970s, and I've never heard this comment made once when it wasn't maliciously intended.

Yes, sometimes young players are advised not to play for such and such a club, but that is nearly always because someone else wants them at their club instead. About ten years ago, a friend of my grandson who plays locally was the victim of several persuasive attempts by his own family to sign for Warrington rather than Wigan because they'd supposedly heard this, that and the other about life at the DW, and it turned out that his family, despite living in Wigan, were all die-hard Wire fans (even though they apparently never went watching, which says it all for me).

I do worry about you, sometimes, RD. The way you craftily slipped that unprovable comment in there ... it was just the kind of thing I'd expect to read about Wigan on Red Vee.

Not crap, just one of the many Wigan supporters who have faced reality that the game in Wigan has never been the same since the club left Central Park. A fact illustrated by no games in Wigan during the pandemic, no games at Wigan in next years world Cup and now less local young players being signed from our own local amateur clubs. Not to mention the Ken Gee Trophy Final now played at Ince Rose Bridge and not at the ground of Wigan.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:10 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

So who decides on them being good enough to be signed for the scholarship, if not the scouts?

The people who run the Scholarship?

I've got an idea - Rather than talking in riddles why don't you just come out and tell us what you think is going wrong at the club, and who it is that is the problem? (I suspect there's quite a few veiled digs at IL & KR in there).

so far we've gone 1 x season without a trophy (We've won a trophy in 8 of the last 11 seasons at first Team level)
We've mopped up most of the junior/academy trophies on offer over the last decade plus

This season we had 3 x top wingers and other reliable back up
The names you quote in the past, at least 1 if not 2 of each of them were on Tiny contracts as they were still in the formative parts of their careers.
Next season we will have Marshall/Manfredi & Bibby as back up plus a couple of other juniors available coming through

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:23 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

So who decides on them being good enough to be signed for the scholarship, if not the scouts?

The scouts got them to scholarship level, it was then up to the coaches to recommend who went to the next level. Currie played Wigan off v Wire and after a couple of matching their offer Lenagan decided not to play Russian roulette.
Makinson wasn't offered an academy contract.

Regan Grace was sent back to Wales after two days by an ex. assistant coach who some are now wanting back at the club

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:41 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

Not crap, just one of the many Wigan supporters who have faced reality that the game in Wigan has never been the same since the club left Central Park. A fact illustrated by no games in Wigan during the pandemic, no games at Wigan in next years world Cup and now less local young players being signed from our own local amateur clubs. Not to mention the Ken Gee Trophy Final now played at Ince Rose Bridge and not at the ground of Wigan.

Well, at least you can't blame IL and KR for that.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:45 am  

Jukesays wrote:

The people who run the Scholarship?

I've got an idea - Rather than talking in riddles why don't you just come out and tell us what you think is going wrong at the club, and who it is that is the problem? (I suspect there's quite a few veiled digs at IL & KR in there).

so far we've gone 1 x season without a trophy (We've won a trophy in 8 of the last 11 seasons at first Team level)
We've mopped up most of the junior/academy trophies on offer over the last decade plus

This season we had 3 x top wingers and other reliable back up
The names you quote in the past, at least 1 if not 2 of each of them were on Tiny contracts as they were still in the formative parts of their careers.
Next season we will have Marshall/Manfredi & Bibby as back up plus a couple of other juniors available coming through

What is your problem with other people having a opinion with which you do not agreed?

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:09 am  

Ruddy Duck wrote:

What is your problem with other people having a opinion with which you do not agreed?

Lots of people post opinions that I don't agree with
You also seem to have issues with other people who have different opinions to your own, hence the discussion. So don't try and make it out it's only the people who disagree with you who are the ones that are "the problem".

The difference being you seem intent on posting veiled digs at the club constantly, fair enough, but you chop & change your position on different threads. When people give you facts to disprove your statements you then change the subject and claim you were right, and then start to have a different conversation.

Recently you've commented on numerous threads criticising Wigan over different topics and each time referring back to "Nothings been the same since we left Central Park".
Rogues immediately put you right that attendances have been/still are as good if not better than Central park and you change it into something else
You try & insinuate that the Love of Rugby in Wigan is on the decline and try & "Prove" it in a way that others keep disproving, Why?
What has Wigan not having a World Cup game got to do with it? The RFL for whatever reason didn't choose Wigan - take
it up with them
Then go on about the juniors and tales about them not being happy and being persuaded to join other clubs, numerous posters reply with their thoughts, you don't agree with them, fair enough. You blamed the scouts, Rogues has put you right on that
So come out and actually SAY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.
Your going all Trump on us - dropping hints and insinuations about things, and leaving it up to people to interpret it how they wish to and some of them will take it there's some kind of Deep State problem with Wigan and your here to enlighten us, leaving divisive posts. Others are replying and taking it for what it is - Rubbish.

I'm all ears - if there is actually something wrong explain it.

Scouting is Rubbish because - ABC leading to XYZ
Wigans recruitment policy is wrong because they choose player Type ABC - when we should be signing players of the type XYZ