Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:52 pm
sergeant pepper wrote:
I get what you are saying, but I disagree on some parts.
The problems at the end of the golden age - and it was a golden age for us and the wider British game imo, weren't as black and white as people make out imo. It's almost revisionary to say they were imo.
Opposition fans & supporters of the the anti Wigan cap (or that's what it should have been called) love to point to our financial collapse as a reason why our 90s model can't ever be seen again. The argument is more nuanced than that tho.
Stupid mistakes were undoubtedly made and the signing of Offiah at the same time as the doomed Whitbread stand is often raised as an example. Sadly the truth is that, had Maurice not signed Offiah, then the stand costs wouldn't have been as great as they were and we'd still have had a team capable of dominating too. Who knows how it would have gone from there?
Rolling out the same tired reasoning whenever someone suggests we should push for better signings is what's holding us back as a sport and plays into the anti Wigan agenda. There's a happy medium between success and ruin and, imo, we're a hell of a long way off that. I think IL sees that too, hence why he's often the guy trying to push for reform.
The problems at the end of the golden age - and it was a golden age for us and the wider British game imo, weren't as black and white as people make out imo. It's almost revisionary to say they were imo.
Opposition fans & supporters of the the anti Wigan cap (or that's what it should have been called) love to point to our financial collapse as a reason why our 90s model can't ever be seen again. The argument is more nuanced than that tho.
Stupid mistakes were undoubtedly made and the signing of Offiah at the same time as the doomed Whitbread stand is often raised as an example. Sadly the truth is that, had Maurice not signed Offiah, then the stand costs wouldn't have been as great as they were and we'd still have had a team capable of dominating too. Who knows how it would have gone from there?
Rolling out the same tired reasoning whenever someone suggests we should push for better signings is what's holding us back as a sport and plays into the anti Wigan agenda. There's a happy medium between success and ruin and, imo, we're a hell of a long way off that. I think IL sees that too, hence why he's often the guy trying to push for reform.
Whoooaaaaa
It's not black and white, thats what I'm saying, pointing out to posters who are continually calling for a return to the good old days that they werent always good old days, there is another side to the same coin.
As for the whitbread stand
I'm guessing you've made a typo, because Mo signing Offiah didnt make the whitbread stand dearer?
I presume what you meant was, that at a time when the Whitbrwad stand was putting us into more debt than we originally planned, the Offiah signing pushed us further?
Salary cap or no salary cap that's just bad/risky business.
However, and I am not a fan of the salary cap, my bigger concern was that 2/3 years later under Robinson when the financial position was even worse it didnt stop him spending into the millions on Inga/quinnell/wright/Connolly etc. (If not in transfer fees then on players contracts).
A couple of years later we also tied Farrell/Connolly/Robinson to big money contracts to fight off the ARL and handed out big contracts to Paul etc. Even though er knew the salary cap (rightly ot wrongly) was coming in.
In some ways we were lucky that we got big money back in for some of them such as quinnell and inga.
Books have to be balanced salary cap or not, but I'm not having that reality is "Rolling out the same tired reason".
Leneghan has dwslt with the salary cap (minus 1 tiny hiccup) better than any other Wigan owner, and in a situation that in my opinion is far more complex given the full time nature of players, contracts and salary cap I think hed sone avery good job.
Am I happy 100%? No
But certain posters trying to make out in some way that wed be better off under the gang of 4, Dave Whelan (who in some ways tried to do what the gang of 4 did which was throw a lot of money at players for short term success, when it was a completely different ball game 10/15 years later under the salary cap) are living in dream land.
The players that leneghan/Rads have purchased, brought in, or been involved and bank rolled the junior section and been patient enough to allow them to develop and valuing them over the lat 12vyears, has, imo been very good. Certainly taking into account comparisons with many other clubs.
Perfect? No
But 6 GF in 10 years (4 wins), Challenge cups 3 appearances 2 wins, 4 World club challenges (1win) and a couple of LL shields buys people time IMO.
Our position over the last 18months hasn been great
But in that time Leneghan has still overseen French/Hardaker/Hastings/G Burgess and now Bateman coming to the club, top drawer signings. (Awaits the usual suspect, but 99% of people were happy with the signing)
Supplemented that with Bullock (who's starting to pay dividends) plus a few others that havent yet paid off.
Have we done some seriously mind boggling things? Yes
The Tony Clubb extension still keeps me awake at night in cold sweats
Letting time tick by on Flower/Lockers/Tommy etc hasnt been great, 1 pr more should have gone each year over last 2 years.
But a lot of the more critical fans didnt like George, they got their wish
They didnt like sutton, they got their wish
They didnt like Sarge, they got their wish
They didnt like Gelling, they got their wish
I'd have em all back here in a shot, I'd even have Mossop and Dudson back!
Even now certain posters are having a pop at the retention of Manfredi
They're sticking it to Budgie, and despite him having us and downs, hes nowhere near deserved the stick he gets and I suspect when he goes next year well get the same old "oh hasnt he improved, why didnt he do that for us" talk. (Has anyone seen budgies record compared to regan grace?, and yes I do k owntheres more to it than that).
Top line
Are we playing better than the some of out parts?
If the answer is yes and were not good enough blame the management
If the answer is no, then blame the coaches, because that's their job, and something Wane did year on year and still got stick for it.
