Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:29 am  

It would be a very interesting conundrum. I’d wager my mortgage that if Peet was offered it he would bite someone hand off.

We’re in a very good place at the moment, team playing well, strength in depth, wealthy owner and what seems to be a fantastic culture within the club.

I just think comments like that are a little blinkered and sometimes it would be easy to pick your own, particularly in recent form.

Going through the teams there’d be some interesting debates, all subjective of course. This is just based on where I see their current level and not future potential. I’m not saying I’d swap all these players just it’s not as clear cut as some are suggesting.

Miski v Makinson
Keighran v Percival
French v Welsby
Leeming v Clarke
Isa v Sironen or Matautia
Ellis v Knowles

Props are an interesting one, Walmsley and Lees are quality but we have so many good ones now.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:33 am  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Oh plenty of Saints players would get into our 17. It's a testament to the strength of both teams. Personally, I'd love to see a second row like Sironen at Wigan. Hopefully, Walters might end up being that guy for us. We've not had a big second row since Joel left.

In regards to Good Friday, am I right in saying Peet has never won away at Langtree (or whatever they call it)? I know we got beat there last year and lost on GF in 22.

Nsemba? Maybe it's my eyes but he doesn't look small to me!

We can add Walters to that now as well. It's really disappointing that he got injured so early as I think he'll run riot working alongside French.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:41 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

I don't like the "combined team" approach to this NK, for the simple reason that it ignores one of the 2 words in the title; "team". You can't simply put who you perceive to be the better players together and assume you'll have the better team. That's not how it works. Then you have the subjective 'who is best' anyway. Is Walmsley better than Dupree or Thompson? Finally you have form. Is Welsby currently better than French or Field? It doesn't mean that he isn't their equal as a player.

The point being made (I think) is 'would any Saints players currently add anything more to the Wigan side than their Wigan counterparts' and I think that is a fair argument to make. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't have equally good players in certain positions.

The Wigan players are doing a great job for Wigan and I wouldn’t swap many at all (not like you’d be given the choice) but I suspect their fans would say that about a lot of their guys as well. You’d probably need to ask a neutral to pick a combined side and I think it would be closer than any of our teams in terms of the number of Wigan players to Saints.

Many Saints fans used to say none of our lads would add anything to them and maybe that was their point as well (although a lot of them genuinely believed they just weren’t good enough) but clearly guys like Bateman, Faz, French etc would’ve walked in their side.

We’re happy with our lot, I get that and Saints are our biggest rivals. We’ve turned the tide and I think we’re a better side than them now and we have a better squad but I do still have massive respect for how good they are and I still think they’re a massive threat to the chances of further success for us.

Last point on Welsby, he’d get in our side comfortably. I’m not sure where but he’s versatile and could play anywhere. Controversial maybe but give me the option and I probably go Field at fulllback, Welsby at stand off and play French on the wing.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:42 am  

Trainman wrote:

It would be a very interesting conundrum. I’d wager my mortgage that if Peet was offered it he would bite someone hand off.

We’re in a very good place at the moment, team playing well, strength in depth, wealthy owner and what seems to be a fantastic culture within the club.

I just think comments like that are a little blinkered and sometimes it would be easy to pick your own, particularly in recent form.

Going through the teams there’d be some interesting debates, all subjective of course. This is just based on where I see their current level and not future potential. I’m not saying I’d swap all these players just it’s not as clear cut as some are suggesting.

Miski v Makinson
Keighran v Percival
French v Welsby
Leeming v Clarke
Isa v Sironen or Matautia
Ellis v Knowles

Props are an interesting one, Walmsley and Lees are quality but we have so many good ones now.

I don't see a single one of those currently displacing their Wigan counterpart in the Wigan side except for the 2nd row option and I think even that is misleading. Despite squad numbers I think Walters is the expected 2nd row regular when fit so it should be Sironen/Farrell or Walters/Matautia which is a far more interesting debate.

Makinson historically would walk that but he hasn't seemed the same player so far this season (or last for mine). Percival on ability but not on durability. It should also be Clarke/O'Neil as they are both the starting hookers and I wouldn't swap O'Neil for anyone in Superleague if we're talking 'for Wigan'.

Ellis for me but then I'm not a Knowles fan so I can accept others might see it differently.

Edit: just realised it should be Knowles/Thompson or Dupree as he's playing prop with Bell at loose, isn't he? Might be wrong on that though.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:51 am  

Trainman wrote:

It would be a very interesting conundrum. I’d wager my mortgage that if Peet was offered it he would bite someone hand off.

We’re in a very good place at the moment, team playing well, strength in depth, wealthy owner and what seems to be a fantastic culture within the club.

I just think comments like that are a little blinkered and sometimes it would be easy to pick your own, particularly in recent form.

Going through the teams there’d be some interesting debates, all subjective of course. This is just based on where I see their current level and not future potential. I’m not saying I’d swap all these players just it’s not as clear cut as some are suggesting.

Miski v Makinson
Keighran v Percival
French v Welsby
Leeming v Clarke
Isa v Sironen or Matautia
Ellis v Knowles

Props are an interesting one, Walmsley and Lees are quality but we have so many good ones now.

I think those match ups highlight how a neutral would probably give a different opinion to a Wigan or Saints fan. Ask a Wigan fan about those and I think loads would pick all of ours bar Isa but I think more neutrals would pick Knowles over Ellis, Clark over Leeming, Percival over Keighran etc.

It’s all make believe but if I wrote down a combined team, I think I’d have around 6 to 8 Saints players in it. What I would say is I think Saints have a far bigger drop off in quality terms from their best 10-12 players to the rest of the team than we do. Guys like Bennison, Hurrell, Blake, Mbye etc are pretty poor players. I don’t think we have too many of those (if any).

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:55 am  

Just seen how Cust failed his hia, reckon Knowles might be sat down again, looked a far worse incident than the Percival red card

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:09 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

Nsemba? Maybe it's my eyes but he doesn't look small to me!

We can add Walters to that now as well. It's really disappointing that he got injured so early as I think he'll run riot working alongside French.

Yeah, he's still a pup tho & so is Walters.

Kinda confused myself, as I was more thinking about an established, big and experienced second row.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:16 pm  

Another interesting point here is those options are not like for like.

It should be Welsby/Field for fullback or French/Lomax for Stand Off.

Leeming/Mbye for interchange hooker or Clark/O'Neil for starting hooker.

Percival/Wardle for left centre.

I've already mentioned the 2nd row pairings and Knowles/Thompson or Dupree for prop.

We seem to be taking Saints best and putting them up against Wigan's lesser option. Make it like for like and the picture is far clearer. Marshall/Bennison for example.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:40 pm  

apollosghost wrote:

Just seen how Cust failed his hia, reckon Knowles might be sat down again, looked a far worse incident than the Percival red card

The elbow when he was already down warrants 3 games. He is a cheap shot merchant

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:27 pm  

Nope have read all the comments still dont think any Saints player would make Wigan a better team at the min.
Doesnt mean they can't beat us but as a squad we have now we have a great chance for more trophies.

Marshy-Bennison -yep thats a good one Phuzzy.