Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:31 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Well it sounds like Danson won’t be a potential buyer and I’d be amazed if anyone else would buy us therefore, IL would have to pass on to his son(s)

Do they want to run the club? Would they be better at it than the current regime, which has delivered a lot of success?

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:02 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

What if there isn't a good buyer? Look what happened to Latics when Whelan just sold to whoever was willing to buy.

Interesting point (and something I've though about long and hard for various reasons)

There was a guy last night who just kept repeating "Sell the club"
Unfortunately, for a few who want this to happen, as I've expressed many times, Multi millionares with say 30/40/50million to spare to buy and then invest over the next 10 years arent falling off trees.

And more importantly, if IL wants to retain the club shouldn't we show a bit of loyalty?
I mean no trophy in 3 years is hardly the biggest disaster to befall this club and again more importantly hes doing something about it, all under the backdrop of him once again investing A LOT of his own money to keep us debt free.
As I've said, they ackowledged their mistakes, they explained why they have stances on certain things that certain people may not like, but I and many others I've spoke to understand why they do it.
Itchy touched on the strain of the last 20months, I'm pretty sure he's been told a lot of whats been said.
But, as part of my statement I Thanked IL, Rads and all the staff for their commitment and efforts over the last 20months in what must have been an absolutely tumultuous episode of events that will have taken its toll mentally, physically etc.
The response to that statement from myself was from what I could tell a unanimous round of applause, because the people in the room could tell the efforts that everyone has gone through to keep the club afloat etc and to be honest i get the feeling that IL and Rads have played prominent roles in trying to keep the game afloat and even leaders to assist and resolve the problems the game has had over this period.

They didn't come out last night and tell us the whole thing is a disaster, they didn't tell us we were going into administration, they didn't tell us we weren't spending pretty much up to cap etc.

They told us that relatively speaking weve got through this thing well, we will be investing in new players (again interestingly enough no one actually replied negatively when he asked about did the fans want to stop the youth conveyor belt and put more money into top signings and was it the right thing to do, I suspect because we all k ow its the right thing to do), they have a plan and want to be part of the future of the club for the foreseeable future. Surely we should be thankful or at least gracious enough to respect that security whilst I admit, always looking to improve and be open minded.

Once again I am sure there will be some criticism of my defence of them, but ask yourselves this, I and others may over defend them, but how much is in the face of others being over critical?

I get that everybody wants to know everything, and I'm not naive to think that those there last night were told any more than 10% of the reality of what goes on or maybe even a polished version of things.
But
I also accept that 80/90% of things we wont know or ever will know the full story.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:03 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I'm not offended

I'm genuinely amazed that over a situation like this I.e. supporting a rugby club someone could imply (and you compound it by using it "Genuinely sounds like") what you are implying

You could have said its like x,x or x without implying people at the club are what you said. And, that others are complicit in it when using that analogy.

I've had to deal with situations surrounding this area in the past, and the number of people on Facebook or twitter for example who drag innocent bystanders into the argument, whos reputations are brought into question, who have lies told about them who are nothing more than people going about their business is beyond belief

I'll leave it at that, I would just say your choice of words are on the extreme, albeit I understand your sentiment behind the situation.

[ORIGINAL POST AMENDED]

My frustration boils purely from how the club backtracked without even such as a whimper. It smacked of hiding from proper scrutiny. That might not be the case and I’m not saying it is but that’s the impression I got.

I support IFL, always have and still do. I agree not everything has been right but which owner is perfect all the time? None. I’d rather IFL stay than the realisation of Ruddy’s fantasy and he go (I’m amazed Ruddy has such a vendetta to be honest but that’s a different debate).

From the sounds of it, it was worth it. There’s certainly been no tweets/posts saying it was a waste of time which in my mind is only a good thing. To be honest at the moment my main gripe is the lack of comms and why Lam is still here. The stadium is a medium - long term issue. Both us and Latics should have a sit down together and discuss moving forward (that may have already occurred for all we know). I think the stadium is a bit of a red herring. I also don’t think we’re a club in decline rather a club in transition still from the Wane era. We needed a good, strong coach to steer us through which we didn’t get and instead got a clueless one in Lam. If we had have appointed, for pure example and not saying we should have, a Craig Fitzgibbon/Jason Demetriou perhaps we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

I’m sat here looking at our issues thinking they seem a lot, but they’re a relatively easy fix. Our squad needs a forward power injection - we’re getting it. We need a new winger - we’re getting one, we could do with a new HB - we’re in the market, we need a new coach - Lam is going and IL/KR need to improve fan communication which they say they will. All that gets fixed and bingo, we’re sat here in 12 months wondering why we were so worried.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:12 pm  

Suzy Banyon wrote:

Jukesays, I explained that I copied a series of text messages I was sent from someone in attendance, nothing more. I also made the post to anger any prying eyes from the club about their clandestine meeting being leaked.

Having spoken to the person that sent the texts and others in attendance, I feel it's clear this was a face saving exercise where Bill and Ben have thrown everyone they can under the bus and by spinning bigger lies than we'd already been told.

It appears to have appeased the happy clappers with vague promises of moving in the right direction, while the more critical fans have been left even more bemused than before.

For example: Why did it take them 2 contact extensions to realise Lam was a clown? I knew for a fact that Burgess was crocked before he signed. I heard a very different version of events about Edwards that Bill and Ben unwittingly corroborated while getting lost in their ever-widening web of lies.

I never said that what you put was lies or inaccurate, I just said that there was context around certain statements etc.

From the rest of the post I guess I'm just a happy clapper, and coincidentally every other person who I spoke to must be as well as they all thought it was a good event.

Its also nice to know that we know nothing and are just naive happy clappers and its only the angry ones who couldn't get a ticket that actually know "The real truth".

I'd also find it strange that your mate who seems to be very unhappy with pretty much everything bill and Ben said, didn't stand up and ask them thise hard questions? Tell the. They were telling lies etc. They had ample chance to do so?

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:26 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

I know you're not one of the bad guys. I don't want to be adversarial about this either. We're all on the same side.

But it seems to me there was an awful lot of bile poured on here last night, the main cause of which was certain people's frustration that they hadn't got tickets to the forum. I wasn't there either, but from what I hear from those who were, it wasn't a disappointing event.

I've always believed that IL and KR are Wigan Warriors through and through. It's true that we've not seen any of the extravagant spending that Mo indulged in during his first tenure, or heard any of the types of ridiculous promises that Dave Whelan made. But Mo was operating without a salary cap and Whelan didn't fulfil those promises. In contrast, IL, supported by KR, has always been a realist and yet has also delivered lots of silverware. I know I'm telling folk something they're already aware of but I think we sometimes need reminding.

I'm not going to pretend, by the way, that all is hunky dory.

I've said on here myself that it feels as though there's a malaise at present. And some things have gone wrong that shouldn't have been allowed to. But I'd refute the argument that Wigan are a club in decline. That's the line being pushed by those in the media and on Twitter who want it to be so.

IL has pulled us back from the brink before. Within three years of our famous 'relegation' season we'd won the Grand Final (beating the last bunch of 'Supersaints', who Eddie and Stevo reckoned should have won because it would have been a fairy tale finish to KC's career ... yep, some things never change).

The thing I'm most concerned about, if I'm honest, is the situation with the stadium. I increasingly feel that it's too big for either us or Wigan Athletic, which means there will always be arguments about who gets priority, who pays for what etc. I don't know how long this latest Latics owner is going to last, but through sheer ignorance he seems to have reignited this whole feud again. So yes, these are troubling times.

But IL inherited that problem. It wasn't his doing.

If the guy's had enough and wants to go, that's different of course. But by the sounds of it, he still feels there's a job to do. So I'm still with him.

Personally I’d love the IL from 2010/2011 but unfortunately time goes by.

I’m not sure of IL age but unless he has a particularly good constitution retirement cannot be delayed indefinitely. If he feels that he has the energy and desire to turn things around (and only he knows that and possibly his family) then I’m fine with that as long as communications and the standards of the club across the board are significantly improved.
I tend to find that most people who criticise IL are usually “fans” who don’t attend games and haven’t done for over 10 years or more. I’m not a “happy clapper” ( don’t really like that term but unsure as to what else to us) but IL has done infinitely more good than bad however, some the decisions in the last couple of years have been questionable and in some cases just downright wrong but hopefully, he can kick on and find some of his old vigour.

I agree with you in that my biggest single worry is the stadium but that is closely followed by general finances of the club however, even if those issues can be resolved we need a significant stepped change in attitude/communication/ professionalism/marketing and a bit stoicism wouldn’t go amiss.
As a club we seem to lost a bit of get up and go which is understandable but eminently fixable. We cannot afford to get it wrong for another year hence my “step aside” comment. I want us to be successful but just as importantly I want to enjoy my club again. The last 3 years have been nothingness apart from the very odd occasions at say Huddersfield and Saints last year.
We need someone to grab us by the collar and drag into a new successful and professional era. IL may have to loosen the reigns a bit with senior management in achieving this but I’m not sure if that’s his style.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:48 pm  

moto748 wrote:

So what is the point of Danson, then?

A Wigan lad willing to help out in difficult Times.
I believe he doesn’t want to run a sports club.

I could be more cynical and think the longer we drift the cost of buying out the remaining 75% becomes increasingly less.

I haven’t got a clue what the correct answer is but in a perverse way the latter does have some semblance of a business plan if I were Danson albeit not very moral.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:01 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

With respect I haven’t named anyone, who’s innocent bystanders reputation am I dragging down? The tone on Twitter for some of those who attended was exactly as described, I make no apologies for using condescending, contemptuous or elitism for describing it. On the contrary I’d support that description fully. Again, there hasn’t been anyone on here who’s struck me as being that way about it. Extreme they may be but accurate, not just to me but to quite a few as I have read on Twitter and here.

My frustration boils purely from how the club backtracked without even such as a whimper. It smacked of hiding from proper scrutiny. That might not be the case and I’m not saying it is but that’s the impression I got.

I support IFL, always have and still do. I agree not everything has been right but which owner is perfect all the time? None. I’d rather IFL stay than the realisation of Ruddy’s fantasy and he go (I’m amazed Ruddy has such a vendetta to be honest but that’s a different debate).

From the sounds of it, it was worth it. There’s certainly been no tweets/posts saying it was a waste of time which in my mind is only a good thing. To be honest at the moment my main gripe is the lack of comms and why Lam is still here. The stadium is a medium - long term issue. Both us and Latics should have a sit down together and discuss moving forward (that may have already occurred for all we know). I think the stadium is a bit of a red herring. I also don’t think we’re a club in decline rather a club in transition still from the Wane era. We needed a good, strong coach to steer us through which we didn’t get and instead got a clueless one in Lam. If we had have appointed, for pure example and not saying we should have, a Craig Fitzgibbon/Jason Demetriou perhaps we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

I’m sat here looking at our issues thinking they seem a lot, but they’re a relatively easy fix. Our squad needs a forward power injection - we’re getting it. We need a new winger - we’re getting one, we could do with a new HB - we’re in the market, we need a new coach - Lam is going and IL/KR need to improve fan communication which they say they will. All that gets fixed and bingo, we’re sat here in 12 months wondering why we were so worried.

I'm going to draw a line under the first part of the response, I'm not talking about the use of the word elitism, Condescending, contemptuous, I was more concerned about the next words that to be honest I done want to repeat (not for fear of saying it, I've said worse in private etc, but I just don't think making last nights forum an analogy to a sex ring and the connotations behind it is a great thing to do).

However

The last 3 paragraphs pretty much nail my feelings.
They didn't whitewash everything and say they got everything right, a number of times they held their hands up, but they gave some explanation behind their thinking and decision making.
They didn't agree with everyone on the floor, but they explained their decisions and why they feel they're right on those subjects.
As I've said, I know people who are and were involved and know about numerous situations, whilst not telling us everything (how can you in a 2hr meeting were dozens and dozens of topics are discussed before you even get i to whether they should tell us) i can say that nothing they said contradicted what I've previously been told so IMO they didn't lie about thise things.

I'm only interested in moving forward

Finances - took a massive hit, worked hard to get through it and have plans in place to improve and get back on track to 2020 forecasts pre pandemic, and have a mitigating plans for various circumstances

Stadium - didn't work out the way they wanted, but are dealing with new owners to put ourselves on a mutually agreeable path.

Squad - and I keep repeating this, they asked did anyone think the way they promote youth etc is wrong, no one complained or said they didn't think it was the right way to go, they explained the situations with a number of players, its up to each individual to believe or not believe them.. certainly on the GW one I believe them, as I've been told previously how much wigan offered and what he went to Wire for. But ultimately the question was asked do we think the identification, nurturing and payment structure that allows us to bring youth, retain youth and guide them into the 1st team environment is the right one.

Coach - they explained their thought processes, they explained the options they could potentially take moving forward, they explained their rationale behind how these things are done and to me I heard nothing controversial in what they said, people may not agree, but its hardly controversial.

Ultimately my feeling was that were 10/20% off were we would like to be in a lot of areas, but with a backdrop of covid and the issues that has brought then a lot of this is understandable.

They gave confidence that coming out the other side they are in the right position to move forward, and whilst not saying there aren't questions and issues surrounding certain subjects it certainly would be fair that they had an optimistic but cautious view.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:05 pm  

[quote="Jukesays"

Itchy touched on the strain of the last 20months, I'm pretty sure he's been told a lot of whats been said.

A bit like yourself my lads went straight from work so we’re dashing off after the forum to get some tea but yes I got the general drift of the night.

Re IL/KR I know what it’s like running a business when finances are hard and any change however how small can derail you. The “business” becomes all consuming. It’s all you think about. Everything takes second place, even your family. It’s an awful place to be in and is draining.
It’s why as much as I have disliked the last 3 seasons I’ll cut them some slack. They ain’t perfect but I’ve yet to meet the perfect human being. I’m expecting a significant improvement in 2022 though.

I just hope they both still have that fire in their bellies to get us back on track

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:17 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

I'm going to draw a line under the first part of the response, I'm not talking about the use of the word elitism, Condescending, contemptuous, I was more concerned about the next words that to be honest I done want to repeat (not for fear of saying it, I've said worse in private etc, but I just don't think making last nights forum an analogy to a sex ring and the connotations behind it is a great thing to do).

Yep, that’s fair enough. Post amended. Said in anger and frustration but in hindsight it was unacceptable.

Re: Fans forum - Tuesday 31 August : Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:21 pm  

[quote="Itchy Arsenal"]

I'm sure tonight after you have grilled them they will give you more info.
What I would say, is that the Latics administration must also have been a massive headache that distracted them that most people probably don't consider enough.
As you know I know a bit about what went on and it was horrible, IL was heavily involved for 9months in trying to work with multiple parties and organisations to achieve a satisfactory outcome for everyone.
Now, we could write a book about the goings on and I'm not sure the perfect outcome for Wigan RL has been achieved, but it is a workable one, and something they will be continuing to try and improve on.
The strain of all of that over the last 12 months couple with covid must have been a nightmare

A little analogy here, my Saints supporting mates were told by me that when they moved stadium the rugby would suffer, and petty much for saints it did. It provides distractions, time, effort etc that then isnt being spent on the rugby side of things.
Covid and the latics administration have been just that but without little positives that say a new stadium would bring.
Distractions, effort etc all the while going through an unprecedented set of circumstances.

People need to be given credit for getting through all that and in some instances at their own personal cost to say their family,health,wealth etc.

I did wonder, and this isn't aimed at yourself personally, that with covid and all that happened if their would be a great "Reset" in society given as people understood and appreciated what people went through, what is important, empathy.
IMO all to quickly we seem to have forgotten those things.