: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:49 pm  

Meyt N Prater Pie wrote:

Fantastic post Brian. I totally agree regarding the club partnering up with the Juniors. Wigan should be putting any spare cash into the local amateur teams, Judes, Pats, Cuthberts, Shevington etc. If we cant spend the money on the salary cap then we should be preparing for 5, 10 and 15 years into the future. Get the current players down there coaching sides. Employ ex wigan players to coach them. Either way, give them some help. There is probably a team of wigan lads floating around superleague that would beat wigan which shouldnt happen

Fordy,
Don't get me started.
I'm almost in full flow.

[DaveO]

: Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:53 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

What should happen?

Wigan should have control over St. Pats, St Judes, Rose Bridge etc and provide funding for those clubs. They then should have first pick of ANY players from those clubs.

Similarly Saints should have control over Pilks, Thatto Heath, Blackbrook etc.

What about sides outside areas that have such a lot of established amateur clubs?

What about players say in the Oldham or Rochdale areas? Who would they come under? Would they be denied the chance to play for Wigan or Saints because Rochdale had first pick or just because they were not from one of Wigan's amateur teams? Same applies to lads from Cumbria.

I am not sure it would work in Yorkshire either were some top clubs are very close together there would be a bun fight as to who go t certain amateur clubs.

Dave

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:25 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Correct.
So what is the point.

Shouldn't he be at Salford.

If we want equality and salary cap rules, shouldn't it apply to junior talent.
How good could Oldham have been with Harris , Sculthorpe x 2, McDermott O'Carroll, Eastmond etc.

all that would do is deny players from outside areas with a super league club the chance to ever progress their career.

what would Greg McNally do, stay at Whitehaven forever, and have no chance of hitting the big time? What benefit would there be in Eastmond staying in Oldham (for him and the game of RL as a whole)?

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:33 am  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

all that would do is deny players from outside areas with a super league club the chance to ever progress their career.

what would Greg McNally do, stay at Whitehaven forever, and have no chance of hitting the big time? What benefit would there be in Eastmond staying in Oldham (for him and the game of RL as a whole)?

Of course they would have a chance of hitting the big time, if they show that they are good enough.

Didn't Tommy Martyn and Chris Joynt play for Oldham, Sonny Nickle for Hunslet, Neil Cowie and Martin Hall for Rochdale.

Last year Saints sent Dean and Smith to Widnes, Wigan sent Flanagan to Halifax, is that the end of their careers?

All I'm saying is that professional clubs should be made to invest in their own amateur clubs, and then should have first pick of the players coming through those amateur clubs.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:40 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Of course they would have a chance of hitting the big time, if they show that they are good enough.

Didn't Tommy Martyn and Chris Joynt play for Oldham, Sonny Nickle for Hunslet, Neil Cowie and Martin Hall for Rochdale.

Last year Saints sent Dean and Smith to Widnes, Wigan sent Flanagan to Halifax, is that the end of their careers?

All I'm saying is that professional clubs should be made to invest in their own amateur clubs, and then should have first pick of the players coming through those amateur clubs.

That's a very laudable suggestion and I'm all for closer links with the local amateur clubs. In practice, though, first pick means nothing if a kid is offered more money to go elsewhere.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:10 pm  

this is a very passionate argument so as a neutral observer could i throw in that the question about Kallum Watkins was mentioned last night on Radio Manchester .

Francis Cummins from Leeds said the lad is a wonderful prospect and Leeds clearly had enough confidence in him to start him last week and that by the way isnt the first time he's started- Shaun Mcrae did explain that a number of clubs wanted Kallum and it was simply down to him accepting what he thought was best for him - plain old freedom of choice

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:02 pm  

Very simple solution (?) Any player on the books of his hometown club doesn't count on the salary cap. Sorted

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:08 pm  

ex-beech-hiller wrote:

Very simple solution (?) Any player on the books of his hometown club doesn't count on the salary cap. Sorted

Something I've advocated for years.
Ant player from a towns own service area should be exempt (or have a reduction in that players cap value).

First of all the service ares would have to be sorted, but if the clubs can agree on a pick a play off team, then they should be able to agree on the service areas.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:37 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Something I've advocated for years.
Ant player from a towns own service area should be exempt (or have a reduction in that players cap value).

First of all the service ares would have to be sorted, but if the clubs can agree on a pick a play off team, then they should be able to agree on the service areas.

how do you define the boundaries of a service area? what would happen in Hull, for example? what about the Widnes/Warrington area? where does the Celtic area extend to? what about London? what about young Cumbrian players? do Catalan "get" the whole of France?

you have come up with a solution to a problem that doesnt really exist - and doesnt explain how it would stop some clubs and coaches choosing to field 9 out of 13 foreign players in their teams.

: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:06 pm  

saints35 bulls0 wrote:

you have come up with a solution to a problem that doesnt really exist - and doesnt explain how it would stop some clubs and coaches choosing to field 9 out of 13 foreign players in their teams.

Am I missing something?
Is there a Rule that states You Can't play 9 Foreign Players ??????

How come this didn't seem to bother you when other clubs had has many if not more foreign players in their team?

Are you getting on your Moralistic High Horse as you want to see the standard of English Rugby improve? If so, thanks for that but I have another suggestion, stop picking the likes of Wilking/Gardner/Maureen etc for GB that may Help!

Please tell me how many of their own Local Backs Saints have brought through into their starting 1-7 in the last 5 years????

I'll tell you what!

Ask Wellens/Gidley/Long/Cayless/Graham Maybe Roby to sit out 1/2 or 3/4 of a season like some clubs have had to do in previous seasons ie Hull?Warrington/Ourselves etc and throw in 5/6 of tese youngsters for the next 15/20 weeks and lets see how Good they are playing with Gardner/Gilmour/Flannery/Wilkin & Hargreaves Class week in week out!

The truth is, Saints & Leeds have been able to promote some Youth into their set ups over the last couple of years because their clubs have had the stability and the success to enable them to do so.

If your concern is about bringing through players to play for GB then :-
When Wigan were making GF Appearances & CC Final Appearances regularly 88-95 - 98-2004 we brought Many,Many more through that were eligible for GB & England and many went on to have Good SL & International careers for England/GB.
In Your 10 Year period of dominance How many players Have Saints provided for GB That YOU Produced? I Can think of about 4 or 5 maybe???

If your concern is more about how many foreign players Wigan are playing each week then :-
Considering the Turmoil the club went through Late 2004/05/06 I don't think weve recovered too badly thank you.
What is it of any concern to you ?

I have said it before I will say it again, The Saints fans are becoming the total embodiment of everything they say they used to hate about Wiganers!
Know it all pompus kn0bs!

You don't know any better than us, you don't know more about rugby than us, You don't have better Morals regarding the future of British RL more than us.

Your team is Just winning more than us at the moment!

At some point this will change, Will you be right about everything then?