Re: ZAK : Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:15 am  

Fordy wrote:

Touche!

But like the players you quote - can a leopard change it's spots? He's a great player but sadly reminds me of Gareth Hock in the brains department.

We've all fallen foul of these wayward players in the past. And yet each time one of them moves to a new club, that club and its fans harbour hopes that somehow or other they will be ones who manage to tame him.

Sadly, it rarely happens. So, all you can do is take a chance that for the early part of his contract at least, you'll get some very good performances, which may secure you a trophy win or something similar, and that if he starts to play up later on, you'll have built sufficient safeguards into the deal to protect yourselves from having to pay compo when he's dismissed.

Re: ZAK : Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:49 am  

Wigan Peer wrote:

Woe betide him if he gets wrong side of Shaun Edwards....... Just saying..

To be fair, we all said that about players under Wane when he was appointed, but look at the incidents we have had (Flower, Bateman, Tomkinsgate). I'm not saying that reflects on him, but some players will be idiots regardless of consequence. I'd put Hardaker firmly in that bracket. It's not like McDermott or Powell would have been soft touches.

Re: ZAK : Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:24 pm  

He's one of those players to file under the heading "it was good while it lasted".
Another of the ilk of Chase, Sandow, Hock, Locke, Tomkins etc etc

Re: ZAK : Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:41 am  

I genuinely hope he manages to do well, not particularly on the field (especially against Cas!) but in life. He’s a really nice bloke when he’s happy and has stability around him off the field.
Unfortunately, his mental health issues make it difficult for him to make good decisions, though. His defence during his UKAD hearing was that he was incapable of making rational decisions due to his long-standing mental health difficulties. That alone is a concern and has proved his undoing up to now (attacking students, making homophobic comments, getting booted out of the England squad, getting hammered and taking coke) and that’s not something an RL coach can “fix”.
In life, individuals make their own decisions and Zak’s mental health issues make him prone to making the worst decisions he can. I’m pretty sure he didn’t wake up intending to do any of the stupid things he’s done in the past, and that he’s regretted them afterwards. But at that critical moment, when most of us would walk away or say no, Zak makes the wrong choice.
Added to this, his refusal to distance himself from his so-called mates who live a lifestyle that’s not conducive for a professional sportsman puts him in exactly the kind of situations that he can’t cope with.

I hope he’s able to get on top of the issues he has and do well for the next few years, but more importantly that he can also get himself sorted out for his life beyond RL. Unfortunately, he faces an uphill battle. More bad decisions are almost inevitable. I’m just glad he’s not at Cas when he makes one.

Re: ZAK : Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:37 am  

If he does have such issues then the best thing he could do is leave alcohol alone - as someone who struggles to make rational decisions then alcohol will only make that much worse. One thing that alarmed me was the sheer amount he allegedly drank when outlined in his UKAD hearing - that much would render most people totally incapacitated and certainly not in a position to do anything else - to me that indicates someone who is a habitual heavy drinker.

I can only see this ending one way, just a matter of how long.

Re: ZAK : Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:06 pm  

exiled Warrior wrote:

If he does have such issues then the best thing he could do is leave alcohol alone - as someone who struggles to make rational decisions then alcohol will only make that much worse. One thing that alarmed me was the sheer amount he allegedly drank when outlined in his UKAD hearing - that much would render most people totally incapacitated and certainly not in a position to do anything else - to me that indicates someone who is a habitual heavy drinker.

I can only see this ending one way, just a matter of how long.

The trouble is that he probably wakes up each day intending to avoid alcohol. On most days he will. But when he’s egged on or when temptation presents itself, he can’t make the right decision. We all know what happens next..

In terms of the amount he supposedly drunk, my cynical side thinks that’s been over-done to mitigate his use of cocaine (which seemed to work). He claims this all happened two days before the game, but he took part in training at Cas at 10.00am the following morning. If he really did drink 6-7 pints, shared a litre of whisky and a litre of vodka with one other person and continued to drink spirits (and take cocaine) then he did a bloody good job of completing captain’s run the next morning. It’s more likely this happened the night before the game, when he didn’t need to be at Cas until 6.30pm the following day, but this wouldn’t have supported the case for reducing his ban from the standard two years.
Again, he could have avoided all this if, knowing he’d recently taken cocaine, he suffered a mysterious minor “injury” that meant he couldn’t play. But he made the decision to play, knowing what he’d taken and that there was a chance he’d be tested.

Zak’s a lovely lad. He’s genuine, polite and I’m sure he’ll even convince himself with all the “fresh start”, “new leaf” and “I know it’s my last chance” comments he’ll undoubtedly make. He’ll sound convincing because he’ll believe it himself. Unfortunately though, his mental health issues will likely lead him to further bad decisions.

Re: ZAK : Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:01 am  

nottinghamtiger wrote:

The trouble is that he probably wakes up each day intending to avoid alcohol. On most days he will. But when he’s egged on or when temptation presents itself, he can’t make the right decision. We all know what happens next..

In terms of the amount he supposedly drunk, my cynical side thinks that’s been over-done to mitigate his use of cocaine (which seemed to work). He claims this all happened two days before the game, but he took part in training at Cas at 10.00am the following morning. If he really did drink 6-7 pints, shared a litre of whisky and a litre of vodka with one other person and continued to drink spirits (and take cocaine) then he did a bloody good job of completing captain’s run the next morning. It’s more likely this happened the night before the game, when he didn’t need to be at Cas until 6.30pm the following day, but this wouldn’t have supported the case for reducing his ban from the standard two years.
Again, he could have avoided all this if, knowing he’d recently taken cocaine, he suffered a mysterious minor “injury” that meant he couldn’t play. But he made the decision to play, knowing what he’d taken and that there was a chance he’d be tested.

Zak’s a lovely lad. He’s genuine, polite and I’m sure he’ll even convince himself with all the “fresh start”, “new leaf” and “I know it’s my last chance” comments he’ll undoubtedly make. He’ll sound convincing because he’ll believe it himself. Unfortunately though, his mental health issues will likely lead him to further bad decisions.

Just curious as you seen to know a lot about him. Is he getting help for his issues?

Re: ZAK : Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:55 am  

Trainman wrote:

Just curious as you seen to know a lot about him. Is he getting help for his issues?

It’s public knowledge as it’s in the UKAD decision that he’s been accessing help, both through psychological support from professionals and through medication, for quite a few years now.
Again though (and again it says in the UKAD decision so public knowledge) he goes through periods when he chooses not to take his medication (again, a symptom of his difficulties in making good decisions) and he then becomes more vulnerable to doing something stupid. He can be offered all the help possible, but if he decides he doesn’t need either the psychological support or the medication then there isn’t much anyone can do. He genuinely convinced himself he doesn’t need it anymore, until of course he does something stupid a;d realises he does (but by then it’s too late).
As with all things with mental health, it’s really difficult to support and even harder to understand each individual. He has a very volatile relationship with his partner (quant this is in the UKAD hearing) which may be a contributing factor or a result his issues too.

I’m not completely convinced beignin the public eye helps either, but playing rugby is all Zak can do.

Re: ZAK : Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:31 pm  

I mustn’t be the only one now who is sick to the back teeth of reading or hearing about his well documented history? Just give the lad a bloody chance!

Re: ZAK : Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:19 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

I mustn’t be the only one now who is sick to the back teeth of reading or hearing about his well documented history? Just give the lad a bloody chance!

Well said