: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:49 pm  

jonh wrote:

Changes to the team i would make would be to have Feka and Hock on the bench every week both play there best rugby and have the biggest impact on the team effort consistantly coming on against a fatuiged defence.

I would demand more of the markers, more often than not we seem to go there for a rest.

I would ask Fielden to find the groud quicker rather than fighting in the tackle getting held up, pushed back and generating a slow ptb.

I would ask our forwards to run in pairs, always having one of the halves or hooker to trail Feka and Hock.

I would use Tomkins as a 13 coming the bench and move Locky forward when he comes on.

I would give Pryce a run in the centres to see how he went.

I would add some work off the ball and dummy runners around the ruck and off our ball carriers wider, nothing too complex just simple plays initially.

Most importantly I would get rid of this move up 3 and hold and would ask the team to increase line speed and be much more attacking in defence.

All of that. I would also like to see us support the ball carrier in numbers as we did against Bradford. Wasn't it refreshing to see 3 and sometimes 4 options every time we made a break! Not seen that from a Wigan side too often recently!

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:58 pm  

my gameplan would be, sit tight wait to be sacked with a big payoff and then take a long holiday

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:06 pm  

Defence:

Abandon the 2 (sometimes 3) and hold. It isn't working. We are allowing the opposition forwards to get a full head of steam up and then making it even easier by being stood still.

There is no such thing as a defensive line. It is an attacking line. Get in there, meet them and drive them back.

We put no pressure at all on the receivers of other teams. Our A&B defenders should be in quicker to cut them down.

Attack:

More 2nd phase needed. We are making halfbreaks or offloads and not capitalising on them as there is no 2nd phase. In a good team, no forward runs alone. There should always be somebody on their shoulder.

We rely too much on a badly telegraphed inside ball to somebody who is on a Sunday morning jog. If we are going to use an inside ball, it needs to be hit at pace and with an outside runner as a decoy.

Running at markers. We have a habit of our forwards running in on the angle, straight back at the markers. I understand the theory behind this but I think Wigan have proved it doesn't work. Angle the forwards out towards the corner flags. This allows outside runners to pick either an over or under line and can create doubt in a defensive line.

Based on our current squad, I'd have:

Roberts
Ainscough, Pryce, Carmont, Richards
S.Tomkins, Leuluai
Fielden, Riddell, O'Carroll
Hansen, Bailey
O'Loughlin

J.Tomkins, Feka, Hock, McIlorum/Smith

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:52 pm  

Our attacking line is too flat so our forwards don't have enough momentum and as a result the defence is tiring them out more than we are tiring out the defence. Flat passing can be useful but we need to be able to switch between the two styles of play more effectively. There were times during the Leeds game when the leeds far right attacking line was some 20 odd metres in front of their far left. This results in our defensive line being angled quickly when the ball is passed right to left meaning more space between our defenders and much more open field behind our right wing, an ideal situation for inviting 40/20's or clean breaks.

Our overall inability to switch to any kind of plan b means teams will find a weakness in us early on and exploit it repeatedly.

Not sure if that made sense but I know what I mean.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:52 pm  

If most people can see the problems..why can't noble?

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:04 pm  

diesel wrote:

If most people can see the problems..why can't noble?

How do we know he cant'? For me the only point definitely down to him is the halting of the defensive line (and it's a massive problem IMO). It's impossible to confirm, for instance, a lack of set plays just because you don't see them executed. Once the player get on the pitch it is up to them to put things into practice.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:19 pm  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

How do we know he cant'? For me the only point definitely down to him is the halting of the defensive line (and it's a massive problem IMO). It's impossible to confirm, for instance, a lack of set plays just because you don't see them executed. Once the player get on the pitch it is up to them to put things into practice.

The coach buys the players, picks the team and should be teaching the players a workable gameplan and set moves. If the players are not following the gameplan and using the set moves then they are either not being shown properly (coach's fault), not good enough (coach's fault for buying/picking them), or not motivated enough (coach's fault on different levels, either he can't motivate players, can't recognise unmotivated players, or picks players regardless of their motivation).

On a side note if players have any major issues in their game, which many of our players have, then coaching needs to be geared towards the specific issues (dropping the ball etc.), if this doesn't seem to be working then players need to be dropped regardless who they are and how much they get paid, if anything the higher paid players should have even less margin for error. I wonder how quickly Gaz Hock would learn to keep hold of the ball, when to offload and not to give away penalties if he got dropped for a few games?? Credit to Noble for doing this with Tim Smith this year and I hope it carries on but why was Joel Tomkins only considered last year due to injuries, would Ainscough have been given a chance this year if it wasn't for injuries and how much better would he be now if he had been given some game time in place of Colbon every now and then?

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:23 pm  

gpartin wrote:

The coach buys the players, picks the team and should be teaching the players a workable gameplan and set moves. If the players are not following the gameplan and using the set moves then they are either not being shown properly (coach's fault), not good enough (coach's fault for buying/picking them), or not motivated enough (coach's fault on different levels, either he can't motivate players, can't recognise unmotivated players, or picks players regardless of their motivation).

On a side note if players have any major issues in their game, which many of our players have, then coaching needs to be geared towards the specific issues (dropping the ball etc.), if this doesn't seem to be working then players need to be dropped regardless who they are and how much they get paid, if anything the higher paid players should have even less margin for error. I wonder how quickly Gaz Hock would learn to keep hold of the ball, when to offload and not to give away penalties if he got dropped for a few games?? Credit to Noble for doing this with Tim Smith this year and I hope it carries on but why was Joel Tomkins only considered last year due to injuries, would Ainscough have been given a chance this year if it wasn't for injuries and how much better would he be now if he had been given some game time in place of Colbon every now and then?

This is what annoys me the fact some people continue to blame the players deflecting from the coaching issues.

I agree 100% with your post. At the end of the day it is the jobs coach to right the wrongs, in 3 years and several of Nobles players added to the squad and several non Noble players removed from the squad we still seem no nearer to correcting the basic issues that in my opinion are holding us back and not seeing us progress.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:45 pm  

jonh wrote:

This is what annoys me the fact some people continue to blame the players deflecting from the coaching issues.

I agree 100% with your post. At the end of the day it is the jobs coach to right the wrongs, in 3 years and several of Nobles players added to the squad and several non Noble players removed from the squad we still seem no nearer to correcting the basic issues that in my opinion are holding us back and not seeing us progress.

I don't necessarily disagree with you and gpartin but merely wanted to point out that is not purely a case of Nobby not seeing the problem. Of course he is responsible in the way that gpartin posts but what is he supposed to do, drop them all?
I want to make it perfectly clear I am not 100% happy with Nobby in the way that some on here seem to be (RHJ, AJ, etc). However, once the team has been trained all week and then enters the field of play there is little Nobby can do when Hock has multiple brain farts or Roberts wilts under another bomb.
I certainly agree with criticism of our defensive tactics. I am sick of yelling "move up!" at the telly. However, credit where credit's due. He has dropped Mathers and, apparently, Roberts and has stuck with Sam and Ainscough, even if their eventual debuts owed much to serendipity.
Finally, for those that have rightly sussed me out as a fence sitter, well done!

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:46 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Don't Panic
Move up as a line
Don't give them an inch at marker
Run in two's
Make Fielden angry

YES!

I'm sure we would all have a lot of things to change if we were coach but the main thing for me is ball retention

If we have 50% of the ball on Friday we will win

I would tape a rugby ball to Gaz Hock's hand for a day as well