: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:44 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

You can get 100% match fit in the gym.

Now it may well be harder than playing the game, however it is possible.

The only way to get match fit is to play games. their is no other way of gainining match fitness

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:45 pm  

mooster wrote:

Do you think Rubgy Fitness and a boxers fitness are similar jonh ??

I played rugby for a good few years before i had a serious accident but i also boxed for a few years and found the boxing training was alot more demanding than the Rugby.

Again its sport specific, i think rugby (league) fitness would transfer well to boxing but it certainly is only a foundation.

Boxing you have to be conditioned for 3 minutes hard work 1 minutes rest, rugby in simple terms you are conditioned to a much lower work to rest ratio. I have started boxing and although i knew what i was letting myself in for find the training far more intense than rugby.

American footballers for example train for 5 second spells with high rest ratio's as it is sport specific.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:48 pm  

jonh wrote:

You will never get 100% match fit in a gym as it is impossible to copy the demands placed on a player in a game, you can get close to it but you will never exactly replicate the physical demands, sequance of demands and intensity etc in a training environment. If you come up with a way to i suggest you approach any rugby club in the World and make your fortune.

It's not impossible. it's just very hard (and easier via playing a match so why would you?)

However it IS possible.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:49 pm  

jonh wrote:

Again its sport specific, i think rugby (league) fitness would transfer well to boxing but it certainly is only a foundation.

Boxing you have to be conditioned for 3 minutes hard work 1 minutes rest, rugby in simple terms you are conditioned to a much lower work to rest ratio. I have started boxing and although i knew what i was letting myself in for find the training far more intense than rugby.

American footballers for example train for 5 second spells with high rest ratio's as it is sport specific.

Boxing is very hard work i remember my first time sparing with the bag i did 10 x 2minute rounds with a 45 second break. couldnt move my arms for nearly a week after and i would have classed myself as fit at the time

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:50 pm  

just trying to keep it simple i think fit is where you have a healthy body no injures plus all the demands of what a game needs in terms of conditioning

match fit is where you used to the speed of the game which you cant train for and your body is prepared for the knock it will take in a game something else you cant train in the gym

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:54 pm  

Sharpy_4a wrote:

Cheers for that jonh.

Whilst i understand what you are saying between the strength and power differences, strength being a one off deadlift for example, and power being a multiple rep deadlift for a similar total to a persons 1RM for example. And how active rest is used in the off season.

I just dont understand why some players (from all clubs) seem to gas really early, when as you point out its not just like they do a 3 sets of 10 routine like you get in the local gym. And im also assuming as i have no first hand experience, that you cant really get away with being lazy in training. I realise that some players are not great trainers, Paul Newlove, never did any weights i am led to belive.

I just find it strange, how considering pryce has done nothing but train for the last 12 months, (under strict supervision as to not damage his foot) he seemed to be so gassed after a short period of time. I understand that some people can gain a higher level of fitness than others so he could just be the one who cant.

If i missed why in your original post im sorry.

Cheers

Each person regardless of if you play sport or not has physical limits, related to genetic make up (ie different percentages of red and white (type I and II) muscle fibres while you can condition the body to make the best of what they have there is a natural limit. Red (or slow twitch) muscle fibres work the anearobic system, white (type I fact twitch) the power system no matter how you train them you at the end of the day still only have what you have and this can be the deciding factor in if you are going to be a success at any physical event long before you ever pick up a ball.

Type II fibres can be trained and this could help if a person is very powerfull but gassed too soon but again there are a limit to these fibres.

In simple terms Feka for example will have a natural high percentage of fact twitch fibres, whereas a player with high endurance who can run all day Sean Long for example will have a higher natural percentage of red twitch fibres.

Training can only do so much everyone has individual limits and recovery rates which will account for the variation, as will the game plan, ie a coach sending a player out with a high intensity work load for 10 mins then bringing them off for a rest, a player like this is always going to look gassed as they are putting in a more intense effort.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:55 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

It's not impossible. it's just very hard (and easier via playing a match so why would you?)

However it IS possible.

Strongly disagree.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:55 pm  

mooster wrote:

Boxing is very hard work i remember my first time sparing with the bag i did 10 x 2minute rounds with a 45 second break. couldnt move my arms for nearly a week after and i would have classed myself as fit at the time

how does match fitness for boxing and rugby compare to match fitness for other sports?
football? cricket ? snooker ? darts

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:55 pm  

XBrettKennyX wrote:

It's not impossible. it's just very hard (and easier via playing a match so why would you?)

However it IS possible.

Sorry Brett you are wrong, you can never exactly simulate the demands of a game, you will get close and we get closer every year as research progresses but you will never nail it, it is what makes training training and playing playing.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:59 pm  

Each person regardless of if you play sport or not has physical limits, related to genetic make up (ie different percentages of red and white (type I and II) muscle fibres while you can condition the body to make the best of what they have there is a natural limit. Red (or slow twitch) muscle fibres work the anearobic system, white (type I fact twitch) the power system no matter how you train them you at the end of the day still only have what you have and this can be the deciding factor in if you are going to be a success at any physical event long before you ever pick up a ball.

Type II fibres can be trained and this could help if a person is very powerfull but gassed too soon but again there are a limit to these fibres.

In simple terms Feka for example will have a natural high percentage of fact twitch fibres, whereas a player with high endurance who can run all day Sean Long for example will have a higher natural percentage of red twitch fibres.

Training can only do so much everyone has individual limits and recovery rates which will account for the variation, as will the game plan, ie a coach sending a player out with a high intensity work load for 10 mins then bringing them off for a rest, a player like this is always going to look gassed as they are putting in a more intense effort.

I guess thats a good point, i never really thought of type 1, type 2 fibers being invloved in aerobic fitness.

I guess thats why they say cant make a sprinter, that you are born one!