: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:04 am  

The problems we have require a more root and branch solution that merely swapping coaches. It appears yet another coach has lost the dressing room. What the hell is the problem with this club? There just isn't the same "pull together" spirit you see at other, successful clubs.

I ask this question in all seriousness. Could the fact that we are tenants (and second class ones at that) at the JJB be a factor? Did we lose something in moving there?

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:27 am  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

The problems we have require a more root and branch solution that merely swapping coaches. It appears yet another coach has lost the dressing room. What the hell is the problem with this club? There just isn't the same "pull together" spirit you see at other, successful clubs.

I ask this question in all seriousness. Could the fact that we are tenants (and second class ones at that) at the JJB be a factor? Did we lose something in moving there?

I think that's more likely to be of relevance to the fans than the players. No player at Wigan now remembers anything other than the JJB. But even if they do, they'll have to live with it. Unfortunately, there's no alternative to playing at the JJB at present.

A couple of years ago, when we were facing relegation, there were some who thought being dropped would give us the opportunity to completely rebuild this club from top to bottom up.

I guess this is what you mean by your 'root and branch' overhaul. I don't think it's quite as drastic as that, but I do think - if Noble is now a spent force, and this is not just some disastrous blip - that he needs to be replaced. I don't think that, man for man, Wigan's first team squad is worse than anyone else's. But it's plain even to a Wigan 'loyalist' like me that we are playing a near-amateurish game to compared to most other SL clubs. I hate to agree with other posters who've tried to make themselves legends on here by doing nothing but attacking Noble in the most bitter ways, but we lack the systems and structure to tackle the better sides. If the head-coach can't see that, then he obviously isn't the right man for the job.

It's always easy to call for a coach's head on the back of defeat, and we've done it too often at Wigan in the past, but Nobby's now well into his third year, and the situ is not improving in any tangible way.

I disagree with you. Swapping one coach for another may work, if the replacement is a top man who knows his job.

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:46 am  

Cruncher wrote:

I think that's more likely to be of relevance to the fans than the players. No player at Wigan now remembers anything other than the JJB. But even if they do, they'll have to live with it. Unfortunately, there's no alternative to playing at the JJB at present.

A couple of years ago, when we were facing relegation, there were some who thought being dropped would give us the opportunity to completely rebuild this club from top to bottom up.

I guess this is what you mean by your 'root and branch' overhaul. I don't think it's quite as drastic as that, but I do think - if Noble is now a spent force, and this is not just some disastrous blip - that he needs to be replaced. I don't think that, man for man, Wigan's first team squad is worse than anyone else's. But it's plain even to a Wigan 'loyalist' like me that we are playing a near-amateurish game to compared to most other SL clubs. I hate to agree with other posters who've tried to make themselves legends on here by doing nothing but attacking Noble in the most bitter ways, but we lack the systems and structure to tackle the better sides. If the head-coach can't see that, then he obviously isn't the right man for the job.

It's always easy to call for a coach's head on the back of defeat, and we've done it too often at Wigan in the past, but Nobby's now well into his third year, and the situ is not improving in any tangible way.

I disagree with you. Swapping one coach for another may work, if the replacement is a top man who knows his job.

Thoughtful response as always but I'm not convinced that it's a lack of ability that is the problem, having spoken to Nobby after the game. He claims that the players simply aren't following instructions or putting into practice set plays that have been worked on in training. One of our imports in particular was singled out for criticism and he intimated that heads will role.

IMO he has no choice but to take drastic action. Riddell, Roberts and Smith are miles away from either form or fitness and should be replaced until they discover both. What's the worst that can happen? We have replacement for all in McIllorum, Richards and Tompkins. Stick with Ainscough and go with one hooker. If something happens and we have to change, then Tommy can step in for a spell at hooker and Lockers can go stand off. Not ideal I know but the way we are going the coach has to do something.

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:02 am  

jinkin jimmy wrote:

Thoughtful response as always but I'm not convinced that it's a lack of ability that is the problem, having spoken to Nobby after the game. He claims that the players simply aren't following instructions or putting into practice set plays that have been worked on in training. One of our imports in particular was singled out for criticism and he intimated that heads will role.

IMO he has no choice but to take drastic action. Riddell, Roberts and Smith are miles away from either form or fitness and should be replaced until they discover both. What's the worst that can happen? We have replacement for all in McIllorum, Richards and Tompkins. Stick with Ainscough and go with one hooker. If something happens and we have to change, then Tommy can step in for a spell at hooker and Lockers can go stand off. Not ideal I know but the way we are going the coach has to do something.

No disagreements on that at all.

Riddell has been a big disappointment thus far, while Smith - though he undoubtedly has talent - seems to be way off the pace in many areas. I'm not going to pass judgement on Roberts yet, as it's early days for him. Plus, I thought he showed touches of pace and class (and I'd much rather have him at 1 than Mathers).

But you're right - even if IL is minded to replace Noble, I think he'd be rash to do it straight away. If we're still in this mess mid-season, he'll have no alternative. But in the meantime, if Nobby has the rocks to drop those players who are not performing, then I'd give him my support.

The time is surely right to bring in Sam Tomkins - I don't see what we'd have to lose to be honest. And I'd tell Riddell that he's on the sidelines until he loses that ridiculous spare tyre.

rl : Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:08 pm  

A new coach is not the answer.
Noble can bring succes back to Wigan given time. He won't need too much either if he's allowed to bring in the players we need.
Our pack is under powered.
The three top teams, Leeds, Saints & Cats have big powerful forwards who when interchanged provide 80 minutes of relentless go forward power.
We are nowhere near.
Brian Noble knows more than anyone how to put a powerful pack together. He needs to be allowed to do it.
We should have brought a prop in this year but didn't. Did IL spend all the available money on the accelerate squad leaving Noble with hardly any funds at all?
We need a prop now and another when Coley departs end of 2009. Only when we have four, big, poweful props plus back up will we start to compete for trophies.
Fans complain about Tim Smith but he's playing behind a beaten pack. No half back can do it under those circumstances.
Brian Noble must stay and be allowed to build up our pack.
Ian Lenagan asked at a fans forum that he be given time and for the supporters to stay with club. I hope he gives Brian Noble time and allows him to stay at the club.
If he can win trophies at Bradford by having the players then he must be given time to bring the right players into Wigan.

Re: rl : Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:19 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

A new coach is not the answer.
Noble can bring succes back to Wigan given time. He won't need too much either if he's allowed to bring in the players we need.
Our pack is under powered.
The three top teams, Leeds, Saints & Cats have big powerful forwards who when interchanged provide 80 minutes of relentless go forward power.
We are nowhere near.
Brian Noble knows more than anyone how to put a powerful pack together. He needs to be allowed to do it.
We should have brought a prop in this year but didn't. Did IL spend all the available money on the accelerate squad leaving Noble with hardly any funds at all?
We need a prop now and another when Coley departs end of 2009. Only when we have four, big, poweful props plus back up will we start to compete for trophies.
Fans complain about Tim Smith but he's playing behind a beaten pack. No half back can do it under those circumstances.
Brian Noble must stay and be allowed to build up our pack.
Ian Lenagan asked at a fans forum that he be given time and for the supporters to stay with club. I hope he gives Brian Noble time and allows him to stay at the club.
If he can win trophies at Bradford by having the players then he must be given time to bring the right players into Wigan.

While we could certainly use a new crumping prop, it isn't just about that. There are many areas of our general play that are badly lacking; it's not just in the forwards. And Tim Smith's half-assed tackling technique has nothing to do with him playing behind a beaten pack. Besides, bringing a prop in while we already have 5, will only mean that we lose one of the kids, and that's something we don't want to do. Likewise, spending money on the accelerate squad was a good idea IMO. If we hadn't done that, we'd already have lost Tomkins and Thornley to Union, to name two.

I desperately want Noble to get it right, but he's had plenty time now to make his mark on this team. And we're still playing very poorly indeed. It'll be interesting to see his selections for this weekend. If the backpage story in today's WEP is anything to go by - and the absence of players like Mathers and Bailey is genuinely being seen as a reason for us losing to Cas - I'll despair. Neither of those two offers anything like enough to get us out of this rut. We now have a much bigger squad than we've had in ages; Noble needs to be adventurous enough to make use of it and start dropping those first-teamers who don't share our vision of what Wigan should be.

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:44 pm  

IL is obviously not going to sack Noble this week, i think he will give Noble a last chance- the quins game. I would really like Noble to stay and suceed, although at the moment it looks very unlikely. IMO i think Noble IS the man for the job.

This year we have started the season with a new halfback combination and also a new hooker in Riddell. People underestimate the importance of having a settled partnership in these key positions. Piggy needs to work on his fitness levels and show the same determination Feka showed at the back end of last year. Give it time!

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:46 pm  

MattyB wrote: Not going to happen for years and the odds must be 1%, but if it happen, this video explains what would happen to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20HTTZWQJSA

MattyB wrote: Not going to happen for years and the odds must be 1%, but if it happen, this video explains what would happen to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20HTTZWQJSA

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:59 pm  

MattyB wrote: Not going to happen for years and the odds must be 1%, but if it happen, this video explains what would happen to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20HTTZWQJSA I can't believe that's actually a single!

MattyB wrote: Not going to happen for years and the odds must be 1%, but if it happen, this video explains what would happen to me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20HTTZWQJSA I can't believe that's actually a single!

: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:24 pm  

I like many want to see Noble be successful with us but he has had the time and just hasn't been able to bring the players in to suit his tactics (ie-a huge pack)

I would love Edwards to come with Farrell as Assisstant (yes he has no coaching experience but he would gain it off Edwards and would certainly motivate the players and make sure they wore the jersey with pride)

Although this doesn't look likely I would like either Wane, Hanley or Lam to have a shot at the job