Player Politics : Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:27 am  

I have noticed a few people mentioning how Nobby may have lost the dressing room and how some players may not want to play for him.

I may be a little old fashioned here but I find that sort of thing totally out of order, the players are paid to do a job and not to try and dictate who they play for. IMO if that is the agenda that some of the players have then they are every bit as guilty as Nobby and his tactics for our poor start to the season.

If the tactics/signings of the coach are not good enough then he will get found out sooner or later, I just don't like the idea that some players may have an agenda.

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:47 am  

just a question

what if the players feel nobby's tactics are not right for the team and feel his methods have been tried and are not working.

nobby has had plenty of time to 'get things right' maybe his time is up

Re: Player Politics : Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:50 am  

Bolton_Warrior wrote:

I have noticed a few people mentioning how Nobby may have lost the dressing room and how some players may not want to play for him.

I may be a little old fashioned here but I find that sort of thing totally out of order, the players are paid to do a job and not to try and dictate who they play for. IMO if that is the agenda that some of the players have then they are every bit as guilty as Nobby and his tactics for our poor start to the season.

If the tactics/signings of the coach are not good enough then he will get found out sooner or later, I just don't like the idea that some players may have an agenda.

Fair comment on the face of it. However even the fans can see certain tactics are not working and some are plain daft! How must the players feel getting booed for carrying them out?

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:54 am  

elliegg wrote:

just a question

what if the players feel nobby's tactics are not right for the team and feel his methods have been tried and are not working.

nobby has had plenty of time to 'get things right' maybe his time is up

Good point and personally I do agree with you about his time being up or nearly up.

Maybe the players could approach IL with concerns about what is happening, assuming they have not done already that is.

I just am not sure that the players should be making a point on the field as it is not only the club and fans that suffer but surely the ability of the players comes into question.

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:57 am  

when a sports team loses the plot (chelsea, warriors (milward), newcastle, etc) theres usually a dressing room revolt behind it.

surprising how the same players play better when a new manager arrives.

hapened with us when nobby took over, but he now seems losing it.

Re: Player Politics : Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:03 pm  

Bolton_Warrior wrote:

I have noticed a few people mentioning how Nobby may have lost the dressing room and how some players may not want to play for him.

I may be a little old fashioned here but I find that sort of thing totally out of order, the players are paid to do a job and not to try and dictate who they play for. IMO if that is the agenda that some of the players have then they are every bit as guilty as Nobby and his tactics for our poor start to the season.

If the tactics/signings of the coach are not good enough then he will get found out sooner or later, I just don't like the idea that some players may have an agenda.

I think you're right in principle, but if the relationship between the coach and the players has completely malfunctioned, then you can only grin and bear it for so long - and the chairman has to make a decision for the benefit of the club.

The other problem is, how do we know whether this is true or not? Certain players report these things, but may actually mean that they personally are disenchanted (perhaps because they're not being selected enough) and only say that others feel the same way in order to strengthen their case. Other observers, who are not directly involved with the team, may report similar stuff because they too have axes to grind - either they've had their nose pushed out at some time in the past or because they are unofficial spokesmen for those one or two players we mentioned.

While there are several on here who've recently reported unhappiness behind the scenes, I know others who report that the atmosphere in the squad and at training is fine. There were similar contrasting stories last season, when the story broke that Trent Barrett and a couple of others were objecting to Noble's tactics. Other people, however, said that Barrett's attitude was based on self-interest and was causing disruption, and that those 'others' who were objecting were actually just being lazy and ill-disciplined, often using their 'annoyance with Noble' as an excuse to turn up late for training or even to miss it.

Two sides to every story, you see. I'd actually go as far as to be wary of any player or junior coach who moans openly about things going on in the club, as there's only one reason why they'd break these confidences to those who aren't supposed to know - and that's because they're using them as a tool to leak information.

So yes, when these situations develop, the players are often equally responsible. That said, it's not as easy to get rid of troublesome players as it is an underachieving coach, and the final buck stops with Noble when it comes to getting Wigan winning again. If the changing room relationship has genuinely deteriorated, there may only be one solution.

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:10 pm  

It is the same in any walk of life/management.

If you are at work and your manager is not delivering/giving you the wrong information/direction, you are hardly going to sit there and happily plod on when your livelyhood is on the line.

These are professional players, being treated with an amateur gameplan it is bound to cause unrest and a questioning of the coach.

If it has happened and he has lost the dressing room he can only blame himself as he clearly had it at one point unlike Millward apparently, as soon as he saw indications that the dressing room was being lost he should have sorted it, prior to it getting to a stage where it is totally lost, again if this is the case, which i think it is looking at the body language and lethargy of a good number of our players.

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:16 pm  

It's gotta be 50/50 imo.

Players have to trust their coaches and the decisions they are making or else it would never work. But after a while i'm sure some of the more senior players will start to voice worries to other players if they don't think the coach is handling or performing well. The key thing is tho how long is it before the players start to voice these concerns a week, month or two seasons?

I do think players have every right after a while to question the coach and his methods if they don't think they are working. At the end of the day it's a players career that could potentially be damaged or in a worse case ruined by playing for a club that isn't doing things right. If a player has serious international aspirations they can't always sit around and wait for the chairman to sort things out can they?

I’d expect senior players to challenge the coach if they feel things are going well. Would players such as Faz, Radders or Edwards stood for it if they thought the coach was damaging the club?

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:38 pm  

[quote="thepriestman85"]It's gotta be 50/50 imo.

Players have to trust their coaches and the decisions they are making or else it would never work. But after a while i'm sure some of the more senior players will start to voice worries to other players if they don't think the coach is handling or performing well. The key thing is tho how long is it before the players start to voice these concerns a week, month or two seasons?

I do think players have every right after a while to question the coach and his methods if they don't think they are working. At the end of the day it's a players career that could potentially be damaged or in a worse case ruined by playing for a club that isn't doing things right. If a player has serious international aspirations they can't always sit around and wait for the chairman to sort things out can they?

I’d expect senior players to challenge the coach if they feel things are going well. Would players such as Faz, Radders or Edwards stood for it if they thought the coach was damaging the club?[/quote]

We know for a fact that the senior players in Edwards time did not stand for it.

Nobody questioned them, some though are chosing to question the current bunch for allegedly doing the same, which is odd.

: Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:40 pm  

thepriestman85 wrote:

It's gotta be 50/50 imo.

Players have to trust their coaches and the decisions they are making or else it would never work. But after a while i'm sure some of the more senior players will start to voice worries to other players if they don't think the coach is handling or performing well. The key thing is tho how long is it before the players start to voice these concerns a week, month or two seasons?

I do think players have every right after a while to question the coach and his methods if they don't think they are working. At the end of the day it's a players career that could potentially be damaged or in a worse case ruined by playing for a club that isn't doing things right. If a player has serious international aspirations they can't always sit around and wait for the chairman to sort things out can they?

I’d expect senior players to challenge the coach if they feel things are going well. Would players such as Faz, Radders or Edwards stood for it if they thought the coach was damaging the club?

The best example of this was the John Dorahy season. It was an incomprehensible appointment, and led to catastrophic results of a type that Wigan fans hadn't seen for over 10 years. Thankfully we had sufficient numbers of experenced, strong-minded players in the team to finally sideline a guy who was patently an idiot and years behind Wigan in terms of up-to-date RL knowledge.

This time I think it's less clear cut. Noble's been in the SL cauldon, mainly successfully, for a decade. He can't know nothing. That must make the position of our senior players - none of whom can hold a candle to the likes of Edwards, Bell, Platt etc, in terms of experience and ability - very difficult.

I feat that if this problem intensifies, it's going to be down to the chairman to sort it out. Or Brian Noble (though if he can turn things round to our satsifaction now, I reckon it'd be a feat worthy of Houdini).