Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 9:07 am  

[Gareth] wrote:

Im on the fence

On one hand, i hope he goes to:
a. screw Saints over
b. have other teams lose players like we seeminly do regularly
c. improve the England team as he will be playing ina much stronger comp

but i agree with what your saying about SL

I'm in the hope-he-goes camp. Or at least that I don't mind if he goes. I'm as concerned as the next fan about the loss of talent to the NRL, but he'll be 29 by then and would have already won everything he can in this country.

Much less of a kick in the teeth than when you've developed a player until their early twenties and they clear off as soon as they're starting to blossom. Still a massive loss for Saints though, obviously.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 11:27 am  

Knowles is a quality player and Saints problem will be replacing him.

To take advantage of the overseas quota one way would be not to give Hurrell a new contract. Toby King will be available so signing him will make a quota spot available.

Saints are a big name club with a trophy winning reputation. The problem is replacing Knowles with a real quality player, it can be done it would be interesting to see how they go about it if he decides to leave.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:01 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

Knowles is a quality player and Saints problem will be replacing him.

To take advantage of the overseas quota one way would be not to give Hurrell a new contract. Toby King will be available so signing him will make a quota spot available.

Saints are a big name club with a trophy winning reputation. The problem is replacing Knowles with a real quality player, it can be done it would be interesting to see how they go about it if he decides to leave.

In the short term you'd think James Bell would just take the spot. He's probably a better player in a couple of areas to be fair (although Knowles is better overall IMO).

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:45 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

In the short term you'd think James Bell would just take the spot. He's probably a better player in a couple of areas to be fair (although Knowles is better overall IMO).

Bell is a different type of player really. Its worked well for us when Bell has come off the bench after Knowles has done a really physical 20-30 mins. There's no doubt about it, he'd be a huge loss, he's probably the first name on the teamsheet for me and we really struggled without him last season.

Woolf loves him and will undoubtedly make a play. Clearly his head has been turned and who can blame him. Having a young family means he needs to make the most of his career and having won everything in the game, I wouldn't blame him for going. It would certainly be easier to stomach if he went to the NRL and not another SL club.

Lees is a funny one too. Again it would be easier to stomach if he went to the NRL but it does seem that the club have an option for 2026. Not sure how it all works whether a club could just pay a fee to break that or not or what will happen. If we lose both though, it leaves huge holes for 2026. That said we will have huge cap space if it happens because Hurrell will be gone (hopefully) probably Mbye, Paasi, Sironen, maybe even Bell.

However how do you replace a Lees and Knowles with British replacements. You can't really which then means you are gambling with quota spots. With the Aussies you can get lucky with a Coote, Sironen or Matautia or you can get unlucky with a Blake type of signing.

A lot of decisions to be made. Personally I think we've massively taken our eyes off the ball. Whether that's apathy or financial reasons who knows but we need to recruit well.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:23 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Bell is a different type of player really. Its worked well for us when Bell has come off the bench after Knowles has done a really physical 20-30 mins. There's no doubt about it, he'd be a huge loss, he's probably the first name on the teamsheet for me and we really struggled without him last season.

Woolf loves him and will undoubtedly make a play. Clearly his head has been turned and who can blame him. Having a young family means he needs to make the most of his career and having won everything in the game, I wouldn't blame him for going. It would certainly be easier to stomach if he went to the NRL and not another SL club.

Lees is a funny one too. Again it would be easier to stomach if he went to the NRL but it does seem that the club have an option for 2026. Not sure how it all works whether a club could just pay a fee to break that or not or what will happen. If we lose both though, it leaves huge holes for 2026. That said we will have huge cap space if it happens because Hurrell will be gone (hopefully) probably Mbye, Paasi, Sironen, maybe even Bell.

However how do you replace a Lees and Knowles with British replacements. You can't really which then means you are gambling with quota spots. With the Aussies you can get lucky with a Coote, Sironen or Matautia or you can get unlucky with a Blake type of signing.

A lot of decisions to be made. Personally I think we've massively taken our eyes off the ball. Whether that's apathy or financial reasons who knows but we need to recruit well.

Replacing British players in a nightmare. There just isn't the quality available form this country and then you go overseas and you start tying up quota spots. I do think Saints will retain at least one of Knowles/Lees but we'll see. Maybe one going will help keep the other but to lose both would be a huge blow. I just can't see it though because that is totally against how Saints have managed their roster in recent times. It's very rare players leave who Saints would like to keep.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 1:34 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Replacing British players in a nightmare. There just isn't the quality available form this country and then you go overseas and you start tying up quota spots. I do think Saints will retain at least one of Knowles/Lees but we'll see. Maybe one going will help keep the other but to lose both would be a huge blow. I just can't see it though because that is totally against how Saints have managed their roster in recent times. It's very rare players leave who Saints would like to keep.

Money talks though. A NRL club could sign either for £300k a year which is a drop in the ocean in relation to their cap yet that amount would (I'm presuming) be way over what both are currently earning individually now.

There's no way that we (Saints) can compete.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 2:30 pm  

Knowles is more of an immediate concern as there is an option on Lees for next year. Ideally both will sign again but couldn't begrudge either of them an NRL move.

We've 18 players off contract in the next 12 months, and up to 5 quota spots to play with. Of those there's only four I'd definitely want to keep and another 5 who should definitely be let go, so we should be salary competitive with recruitment and retention right now.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 5:35 pm  

SFW wrote:

Knowles is more of an immediate concern as there is an option on Lees for next year. Ideally both will sign again but couldn't begrudge either of them an NRL move.

We've 18 players off contract in the next 12 months, and up to 5 quota spots to play with. Of those there's only four I'd definitely want to keep and another 5 who should definitely be let go, so we should be salary competitive with recruitment and retention right now.

There is a guy ITK on the other Wigan forum, who is very well connected, and he is saying that Knowles to Dolphins and Lees to Wire are done deals.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 5:54 pm  

SFW wrote:

Knowles is more of an immediate concern as there is an option on Lees for next year. Ideally both will sign again but couldn't begrudge either of them an NRL move.

We've 18 players off contract in the next 12 months, and up to 5 quota spots to play with. Of those there's only four I'd definitely want to keep and another 5 who should definitely be let go, so we should be salary competitive with recruitment and retention right now.

Jeez that a lot of players. Possibly looking at a further rebuild. What’s McManus said on all this, has he lost interest?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Jan 28, 2025 6:22 pm  

Zig wrote:

There is a guy ITK on the other Wigan forum, who is very well connected, and he is saying that Knowles to Dolphins and Lees to Wire are done deals.

The guy from fir tree farm?