Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:33 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

Do we?

i'd be surprised if we dont, but with a sports team it may be a little more fluid than what i am used to in business, and it is likely to start at the top with a plan for Matty Peet

so for Matty, it could be SoL, Tommy or bring in external. Obviously with Matty tied down to long term contract, the club arent envisaging having to act on this anytime soon, but they will be conscious that things change, and one of the current coaches needs to be in a position to take on the 1st team or we go external

Players are where its likely to be a little more fluid as injuries / loss of form. So for example Harry Smith could be our no 7 for the next 10 years, but we will be monitoring all the young lads coming through from scholarship into academy. The coaches can take a view on the ones most likely to make it, and even though we may bring in 20-30 young lads each year, we know that only 2-3 are likely to make it. If there is an outstanding talent that comes through, then it is likely that they would put pressure on Harry. Harry could get injured, short term, medium term loss of form, change of playing style doesnt suit, therefore we need to have someone ready to pick up that no7 jersey. Equally, we may know that we dont have any potential suitors to that no7 shirt, so we go for Nathan Cleary (only joking), so we would need to look externally for our replacement

the club(s) as i include all professional clubs in this, wont just be thinking player x is our player for the next 10-15 years, and therefore i am pretty sure all will have short, medium and long term succession plans in place for coaching through playing staff

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:04 pm  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

i'd be surprised if we dont, but with a sports team it may be a little more fluid than what i am used to in business, and it is likely to start at the top with a plan for Matty Peet

so for Matty, it could be SoL, Tommy or bring in external. Obviously with Matty tied down to long term contract, the club arent envisaging having to act on this anytime soon, but they will be conscious that things change, and one of the current coaches needs to be in a position to take on the 1st team or we go external

Players are where its likely to be a little more fluid as injuries / loss of form. So for example Harry Smith could be our no 7 for the next 10 years, but we will be monitoring all the young lads coming through from scholarship into academy. The coaches can take a view on the ones most likely to make it, and even though we may bring in 20-30 young lads each year, we know that only 2-3 are likely to make it. If there is an outstanding talent that comes through, then it is likely that they would put pressure on Harry. Harry could get injured, short term, medium term loss of form, change of playing style doesnt suit, therefore we need to have someone ready to pick up that no7 jersey. Equally, we may know that we dont have any potential suitors to that no7 shirt, so we go for Nathan Cleary (only joking), so we would need to look externally for our replacement

the club(s) as i include all professional clubs in this, wont just be thinking player x is our player for the next 10-15 years, and therefore i am pretty sure all will have short, medium and long term succession plans in place for coaching through playing staff

I get your points and information, but the post I originally quoted implied we have a succession plan for every position (which may be true) but framed as if we didn't historically.

So my question is around how does he know we have a succession plan for every player and why that is different to anything we have had historically.

To highlight my point - What is the succession plan for Jai Field? And if the answer is X youngster in our academy or first team, how is that different to what we have always had?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:10 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

Do we?

If we don’t we have got very lucky of late!

Most clubs have a depth chart covering first team down to scholarship which would take up a major part of planning and recruitment/retentions and scouting.

In the James Graham podcast Penrith CEO was on and he said he knew what his starting 17 would be for the next 4 seasons more or less.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:26 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

I get your points and information, but the post I originally quoted implied we have a succession plan for every position (which may be true) but framed as if we didn't historically.

So my question is around how does he know we have a succession plan for every player and why that is different to anything we have had historically.

To highlight my point - What is the succession plan for Jai Field? And if the answer is X youngster in our academy or first team, how is that different to what we have always had?

to be fair i'd be surprised if we havent had this for years(but i have no inside knowledge just my opinion based on work experience), we may just be doing it more professionally than previously. Its something i've been involved with for years at work, so would be shocked if professional sports teams dont have similar. However, i would caveat, that as we have seen at Wigan in the past, Leeds and Saints recently, that clubs arent always getting it correct as there would be a greater consistency in on field performance if that were the case. Sometimes there are emotions that get in the way where players are concerned that i dont think you would typically see in a day to day workplace

re Jai Field, the short term (injury) plan could be Bevan French or Zak Eckersley. Medium term say 12-24 months, they will have a view that Bevan / Zak could cover injury and also they have a view of what we have reserves, academy and scholarship. is there a player within the current structure able to take over at full back (not saying he will be as good as Jai at this point), so the club need to look and think Jai, Bevan / Zak, AN Other or recruit if salary cap available

coming towards the end of Jai's contract, do we offer him a new contract or let him go? Do we have a replacement for him (yes / no), do we need to recruit (yes / no) with both questions the club would also be querying what the impact is of Jai no longer being here i.e. he's rapid, and can do things other players cant, so what benefits does the player promoted / recruited have v what we are losing? Can the player be adapted or does playing style need to be adapted? Do we have a player in another position with strengths that we currently dont have

from what i've seen of Matty Peet he is a very shrewd man manager, and is most likely using tools from business / other sports to get the best out of himself and his players

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Tue Oct 29, 2024 4:33 pm  

Wigan will have succession planning in place by the fact they have an academy, scholarships and talent scouts in place, the unknown in all of it is the players themselves.

Bevan may decide to go back at the end of his contract so Wigan will in theory have someone in mind to take over, however Bevan may decide he wants to stay and if he is the best half back in the comp at the time, then I suspect Wigan would renew his contract unless of course they couldn't afford it, that then leaves the player coming through to replace him with a decision to make when his contract is due, does he bide his time or move on for regular games, all of these decisions are in the hands of the players, the club just has to have contingencies in place based on the variables, which I suspect the club and all clubs who have academies etc. will do

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 20, 2024 8:49 am  

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... s-30404661 Saints squad numbers released a couple of days back On paper 1-17 looks decent, although i think Hurrell and Bennison could be gotten at. much will depend on injuries as outside of the 17, there is only really 2 players with lots of 1st team experience or you would consider 1st team players. The pack is more than capable of mixing it with the best, and with Bell, Whitley & Paasi have some good strength off the bench, but as just commented it will depend on injuries how they go this season

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... s-30404661 Saints squad numbers released a couple of days back On paper 1-17 looks decent, although i think Hurrell and Bennison could be gotten at. much will depend on injuries as outside of the 17, there is only really 2 players with lots of 1st team experience or you would consider 1st team players. The pack is more than capable of mixing it with the best, and with Bell, Whitley & Paasi have some good strength off the bench, but as just commented it will depend on injuries how they go this season

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:00 am  

I'm really surprised that Hurrell has been given a new deal. They look to have sorted out the wing issues but Matautia will be a huge loss, the centres will struggle to get through a full season and a fair chunk of luck will be needed with Walmsley and Paasi to then allow the pack to try and dominate. They'll be up near the top of the table again but it feels like their recruitment/retention needs to be a bit more ruthless.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:22 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

I'm really surprised that Hurrell has been given a new deal. They look to have sorted out the wing issues but Matautia will be a huge loss, the centres will struggle to get through a full season and a fair chunk of luck will be needed with Walmsley and Paasi to then allow the pack to try and dominate. They'll be up near the top of the table again but it feels like their recruitment/retention needs to be a bit more ruthless.

It will also be interesting to see if he goes Murphy to start off with or if he feels Bennison is worth the no5 shirt

I know there's been different threads on here and Warriors fans about the pack ,but our decision last year to really stack the props seems to have paid dividends as we are settled again for this year, and have depth there too

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 20, 2024 10:43 am  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

It will also be interesting to see if he goes Murphy to start off with or if he feels Bennison is worth the no5 shirt

I know there's been different threads on here and Warriors fans about the pack ,but our decision last year to really stack the props seems to have paid dividends as we are settled again for this year, and have depth there too

We're well set across the board for the next 5+ years really and can be really specific with the recruitment now and in which positions they try to fill from the academy. Looking over the hill at Saints, the transition period has started to a degree but there is still going to be an awful lot of change needed in the coming seasons and that is part of the reason I'm surprised Hurrell wasn't replaced now. Within the next 2 to 4 years, they're likely going to need to replace Hurrell, Feldt, Lomax, Walmsley and Paasi. I can't see Percival playing past that period either and Clark and Sironen will be right at the end of their careers. You'd also imagine in that time Welsby may decide to chance his arm in the NRL as well, so lots of good work is going to be needed and it's getting harder and harder to recruit top quality players. They'll bring good players through, as they always do but it won't be easy.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 20, 2024 11:16 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

We're well set across the board for the next 5+ years really and can be really specific with the recruitment now and in which positions they try to fill from the academy. Looking over the hill at Saints, the transition period has started to a degree but there is still going to be an awful lot of change needed in the coming seasons and that is part of the reason I'm surprised Hurrell wasn't replaced now. Within the next 2 to 4 years, they're likely going to need to replace Hurrell, Feldt, Lomax, Walmsley and Paasi. I can't see Percival playing past that period either and Clark and Sironen will be right at the end of their careers. You'd also imagine in that time Welsby may decide to chance his arm in the NRL as well, so lots of good work is going to be needed and it's getting harder and harder to recruit top quality players. They'll bring good players through, as they always do but it won't be easy.

there is a very different feel about Wigan now, to say the previous 10 years

i know there will always be 1 or 2 lads who want to chance their arm in the NRL, and no-one can blame them really given the lifestyle and likely salary increase. However, we seem to have gone from virtually anyone wants to / or can go, even with a long term contract, to players seemingly wanting to play for Wigan. IMO KPP went about his move to the NRL in the right way. He informed the club of his intention, but more importantly played his heart out for Wigan in that last season, and gave his all, as a fan, thats all i want to see when they have the Cherry and White on.

in terms of the feel, its gone from feeling like a major surgery / makeover each off season, to minor surgery / cosmetic . As you said, at the minute we have long term contracts to key players, we know when others are off contract and with smart retention / not renewing for the sake of it, we could see this side together for a good few years, with minor tweaks to it

i suppose the change to when off contract players can talk to other clubs will potentially have an impact, not just on Wigan's recruitment but across the game. Theoretically, from 1st Dec, we could find out that Byrne, Isa and Farrell, are all moving on for the 2026 season as they have signed for other clubs, so that could take some of the decisions out of the clubs hands earlier if the player feels they are going to be offered a better contract elsewhere. i'm not sure yet, whether i like that change or not, but i suppose from a player perspective, the sooner they can sort out their next contract the better for them, so a positive from a players perspective?