Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:37 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

Game over if Welsby gets injured. Had hoped that Will Pryce could provide back up at fullback but he's on the outer at Newcastle.

Pryce was my hope for somebody to push Welsby. Maybe he can start to do it next season. If Welsby went down before the Ashes, I could see Farnworth going to fullback and in fairness, that could be the complete opposite of game over but we'd then absolutely need Wardle fit and available. You couldn't move Farnworth to fullback against Australia and leave yourself with a centre pairing of Newman and King facing off against Tabuai-Fidow and Trbojevic.

Re: England vs Samoa : Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:12 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Pryce was my hope for somebody to push Welsby. Maybe he can start to do it next season. If Welsby went down before the Ashes, I could see Farnworth going to fullback and in fairness, that could be the complete opposite of game over but we'd then absolutely need Wardle fit and available. You couldn't move Farnworth to fullback against Australia and leave yourself with a centre pairing of Newman and King facing off against Tabuai-Fidow and Trbojevic.

And the craziest part about that is Tabuai-Fidow and Trbojevic are 2 of the best full-backs in the NRL. We don't just lack depth, we also lack players who can excel in multiple positions.

[Bullseye]

Re: England vs Samoa : Tue Nov 05, 2024 9:49 am  

At least we're not playing various loose forwards in the halfbacks and at hooker anymore.

Re: England vs Samoa : Tue Nov 05, 2024 7:07 pm  

And yet I remember the days when, if Kevin Sinfield was injured, it was a disaster for England/GB. Fortunately, as noted, we have a few more options now. I'm not sure Welsby has the game to play in the halves at the top level, though.

Re: England vs Samoa : Wed Nov 06, 2024 8:37 am  

@moto748, it wont let me quote your text

it will be interesting to see how Saints play Welsby and Sailor, as there is a possibility that Welsby may move into the halves and Sailor to FB, which would really bugger up our international chances . Stu / YG or FTV will probably have a better view than any of us do on that one though

and on the point yourself and Bullseye make re players switching for some unknown reason we've done that since the late 80s, moving loose forwards into 6,7, or 9, when they dont play there week in week out. Hopefully now, players are picked on merit, in their positions they play each week, so we arent putting square peg into round hole. We have a depth of talent across our game, with a couple of admittedly weaker positions as we've been discussing, but thats more, our 1st choice FB and Centres are fine, but depth beyond those players

Re: England vs Samoa : Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:25 am  

Mark_P1973 wrote:

@moto748, it wont let me quote your text

it will be interesting to see how Saints play Welsby and Sailor, as there is a possibility that Welsby may move into the halves and Sailor to FB, which would really bugger up our international chances . Stu / YG or FTV will probably have a better view than any of us do on that one though

and on the point yourself and Bullseye make re players switching for some unknown reason we've done that since the late 80s, moving loose forwards into 6,7, or 9, when they dont play there week in week out. Hopefully now, players are picked on merit, in their positions they play each week, so we arent putting square peg into round hole. We have a depth of talent across our game, with a couple of admittedly weaker positions as we've been discussing, but thats more, our 1st choice FB and Centres are fine, but depth beyond those players

I don't think anyone knows yet. Both Sailor and Wellens have alluded to the fact that they haven't nailed down if he is playing 1 or 6 yet. I presume that Briers will have a big input into this when he starts pre-season bearing in mind he was at the Bronco's with Sailor

Whilst I have previously said that Welsby's defensive game at FB still needs improvement, from the games I have seen Sailor play then I would suggest that Welsby is a better FB option in defence

My guess would be Sailor at 6 as he does seem to have a good short kicking game too.

Re: England vs Samoa : Wed Nov 06, 2024 9:43 pm  

moto748 wrote:

And yet I remember the days when, if Kevin Sinfield was injured, it was a disaster for England/GB.

When were they! Brilliant domestic career but I genuinely can't remember him ever doing anything of note at international level besides that missed tackle to lose us the WC semi v NZ. It goes against the prevailing wind here but an out of position Sculthorpe did a far better job for GB at stand off.

Re: England vs Samoa : Wed Nov 06, 2024 10:05 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

When were they! Brilliant domestic career but I genuinely can't remember him ever doing anything of note at international level besides that missed tackle to lose us the WC semi v NZ. It goes against the prevailing wind here but an out of position Sculthorpe did a far better job for GB at stand off.

haha i thought this too. It's a shame because he had a hand in 2 tries in this game.

He just failed to do what everyone claims he did for Leeds, see out the game and manage us to a win.

That lack of control is what lead to the miss on Johnson IMO and that obviously overshadows setting up our tries.

Re: England vs Samoa : Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:16 am  

I actually think it’s harsh that Sinfield is remembered for that miss.

He had a great game that day and one on one on the back foot against a 2013 Shaun Johnson off a quick play the ball I’m not sure many if any in the world make that tackle under such fatigue.

Seem to remember it’s a frantic game towards the end but we restrict NZ to 5 tackles out of their half, they are 40 yards from our line and one of the Burgess twins gives away a really poor high tackle giving them another 6 in our attacking zone to give them the field position for SJ to do what he did.

Sinfield though generally certainly didn’t have the impact Farrell or Sculthorpe did during their international careers and was always second fiddle to Locky on that stage too.

Great clubman Sinfield but I don’t think that form ever consistently transferred to the international stage.

Re: England vs Samoa : Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:48 am  

Sinfield was a bit of a victim of being moved around at Leeds between 6 and 13 and also for GB/England, between 6, 13 and also 9. I look at this current England team and he's Harry Smith and if he was slotted in around Williams, Clark, Radley etc, then he can control the team and kick us around the field. It almost feels like he was playing with the wrong number on his back during his career. He wasn't big enough to be a 13 and he wasn't quick enough or enough of a running threat to play at 6. He played at 7 in that World Cup and the perception started to change but he then misses that tackle and we forget everything else.