Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 12:12 pm  

MattyB wrote:

I agree, looking at that team sheet it was a strong one. Maybe they need to realise they aren't that great anymore, majority of their senior players are the wrong side of thirty and not getting any younger. Also I'm not sure any of their announced signings will change any of that.

Big few years for Saints management, will they come strong again quickly (history says they normally do) or will they go the other way like Leeds are doing with a decade in the wilderness. Both teams have a strong youth system in place (Saints arguably better than Leeds lately) and getting this right is paramount.

I think their backline is much improved going into 2025.

Forwards are very much in transition though and I’m not sure that issue can be resolved in one offseason.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 2:08 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

It's funny how people see things differently. Last night showed exactly why I've been saying all season that they weren't our main threat. Even with the majority of their players back and putting in the best performance of their season they still weren't good enough against the team that finished 3rd. Kudos to Saints for managing to put in a season's best performance when it mattered most but when that performance is yet another loss I think it says everything about where they currently are.

Saints were never our main threat in 2024 as they weren't in 2023. This "never write off the Saints" needs binning alongside "The Entertainers" tag. Neither are correct any more.

They'll be back. I have no doubt about that whatsoever. Whether that will be next season or not remains to be seen but there was never any doubt in my mind that it wasn't going to be this year and that proved to be spot on.

But the way some people spoke going in to the play offs was as though they were going to be easy beats. It took a huge effort from Warrington to squeeze past them, in golden point. They're not the side they were, we all acknowledge that but they were always going to be extremely hard to beat in any play off tie. They've got to rebuild but I can't help respect them for being able to be extremely competitive, make play offs etc even at their worst. I'm happy to enjoy our success, while giving them that respect,which is world's away from what some of their fans could bring themselves to do during the 4 on the spin.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 2:42 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

But the way some people spoke going in to the play offs was as though they were going to be easy beats. It took a huge effort from Warrington to squeeze past them, in golden point. They're not the side they were, we all acknowledge that but they were always going to be extremely hard to beat in any play off tie. They've got to rebuild but I can't help respect them for being able to be extremely competitive, make play offs etc even at their worst. I'm happy to enjoy our success, while giving them that respect,which is world's away from what some of their fans could bring themselves to do during the 4 on the spin.

Exactly - it wasn't that people thought they would win it - just that they couldn't be written off in a three match play off series. Combine the experience of Saints with Warrington's history of screwing it up in the big games and it's no surprise it was close yesterday.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 2:43 pm  

[youtube][/youtube]

NickyKiss wrote:

But the way some people spoke going in to the play offs was as though they were going to be easy beats. It took a huge effort from Warrington to squeeze past them, in golden point. They're not the side they were, we all acknowledge that but they were always going to be extremely hard to beat in any play off tie. They've got to rebuild but I can't help respect them for being able to be extremely competitive, make play offs etc even at their worst. I'm happy to enjoy our success, while giving them that respect,which is world's away from what some of their fans could bring themselves to do during the 4 on the spin.

I can't speak for anyone who said they would be easy beats. I certainly never said that. I have, however, consistently said they weren't our biggest threat when many people, yourself being one of them, were trotting out the "when they get their players back" line. Well, they got players back and still went out at the first hurdle. I simply don't get this deference for them based on what they've been in the past. All that matters when discussing their potential threat is what they are in the here and now and, in the here and now, they barely scraped into the 6 and were dumped out of the playoffs at the first attempt. Plucky losers is not, and was never going to be, our biggest threat as many were trying to suggest.

This is not to gloat, demean their past achievements or to suggest they won't be challenging at the top end of the table in the future. I am merely pointing out that one plucky loss doesn't, and shouldn't, change the narrative of where they stand at this present time. In fact I only mentioned it at all when you said that this one plucky loss somehow confirmed that you were right not to write them off. What it actually shows is they managed to raise their game for a one off performance that still wasn't good enough to progress any further than the first round!

Finishing 80 minutes from being 80 minutes from being 80 minutes from a trophy does not a biggest threat make.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 2:49 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

Exactly - it wasn't that people thought they would win it - just that they couldn't be written off in a three match play off series. Combine the experience of Saints with Warrington's history of screwing it up in the big games and it's no surprise it was close yesterday.

No team can be written off in any game. That's a long way short of being "our biggest threat" as many people were saying in those exact words. The 3 remaining teams are a bigger threat than they were which is why they're in the semis.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:22 pm  

Phuzzy wrote:

[youtube][/youtube]I can't speak for anyone who said they would be easy beats. I certainly never said that. I have, however, consistently said they weren't our biggest threat when many people, yourself being one of them, were trotting out the "when they get their players back" line. Well, they got players back and still went out at the first hurdle. I simply don't get this deference for them based on what they've been in the past. All that matters when discussing their potential threat is what they are in the here and now and, in the here and now, they barely scraped into the 6 and were dumped out of the playoffs at the first attempt. Plucky losers is not, and was never going to be, our biggest threat as many were trying to suggest.

This is not to gloat, demean their past achievements or to suggest they won't be challenging at the top end of the table in the future. I am merely pointing out that one plucky loss doesn't, and shouldn't, change the narrative of where they stand at this present time. In fact I only mentioned it at all when you said that this one plucky loss somehow confirmed that you were right not to write them off. What it actually shows is they managed to raise their game for a one off performance that still wasn't good enough to progress any further than the first round!

Finishing 80 minutes from being 80 minutes from being 80 minutes from a trophy does not a biggest threat make.

In fairness to myself, I always put the stipulation on them being our biggest threat of them having all their players back fit and firing and they didn't have that. Hurrell out, Sironen out, Mybe out and others not looking fully fit. All excuses really but they were always going to need to get to a position of having all those guys and having built up some momentum in the last few weeks of the season. I said last week after Leigh that it looked unlikely that they could end up being that biggest threat to us but their performance level yesterday was well in advance of even where I thought they could get to pre game.

Maybe on my part it's a mental block with them, which refused to let me think they're done for (in the short term). We've had spells in the Superleague era of turning up for derbies knowing they're going to absolutely batter us and they have. We haven't had that, they pretty much always give us a hard game. When a side 'always' makes the play offs, even in their worst seasons, I think that just makes me extremely wary of them and I thought yesterday showed exactly why. Very few clubs could've played as they have this season and then turned up like that yesterday, regardless of the fact they got pipped by a Golden point drop goal.

I'm glad they're out anyway

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 3:30 pm  

Saints were never going to beat Wire Away, then Wigan Away then Hull KR in the final.

Bilko put a great comment on Twitter saying Saints had lost the last 11 out of 12 games against their Top Five opponents (and then only winning against Salford in golden point).

I'm convinced we'd have beaten them on Good Friday had we not been down to twelve men, despite their good start to the season.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Sep 29, 2024 4:59 pm  

Saints are the 6th best team this year and was proven by not getting past the first hurdle.
They wouldnt have beaten us in the semi I am sure of that if they had won that.
St Helens just arn't that good anymore,they will bounce back at some point but now they are not that good.