Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:48 pm  

Yep thats Cliffee ... He got his refund as well. And everybody was a Khazi not just the ref when he really got going. He did come out with some stuff.

And as we was sat right in the corner of the main stand at ealing (next to the away VP's and the radio commentators), it was amusing listening to the commentators having to keep apologising about some of his comments (he never swore, but he was not politically correct).

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:00 pm  

markrammond wrote:

Hi,

The key drivers behind a ground move were these;

1. Concern that the Super League Executive would not admit Ealing Trailfinders ground "back to Super League". The then Chairman of Super League had indicated as such.

2. Lack of opportunity to further develop the corporate side of things. The club has long held ambitions to run a business club or sponsor suite. However the gold seats were often already sold out. There were concerns that the club could end up with corporate types sat near idiots like me, daft Al, Cliffie or One Arm Bandit.

3. Lack of revenue opportunities. The Trailfinders were believed to have welcomed the club with "treat the club as your own" but the revenue all went to them.

Interesting to see these, my thoughts:

1/ We had played SL at Ealing before. The club would have had a strong case that it was still fit for purpose and could have worked with Ealing to develop the ground if necessary. However, in the real world, the chance of SL any time soon was remote at best.
2/ Corporate money might be nice to have but the club should have been prioritising its core fan base (like those in the Gold seats) and trying to grow from there rather than alienating them. How much corporate money are we getting now ?
3/ As a tenant, this is all down to the deal you strike and the relationship you build. If a share of revenues was important why did they not negotiate that at Ealing ? How much are the club making from Cherry Red revenues. I can't imagine much.

The club was chasing shadows with this move and has failed on all fronts.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:24 pm  

[quote="jbuzza"]Interesting to see these, my thoughts:

1/ We had played SL at Ealing before. The club would have had a strong case that it was still fit for purpose and could have worked with Ealing to develop the ground if necessary. However, in the real world, the chance of SL any time soon was remote at best.
2/ Corporate money might be nice to have but the club should have been prioritising its core fan base (like those in the Gold seats) and trying to grow from there rather than alienating them. How much corporate money are we getting now ?
3/ As a tenant, this is all down to the deal you strike and the relationship you build. If a share of revenues was important why did they not negotiate that at Ealing ? How much are the club making from Cherry Red revenues. I can't imagine much.

On 1 I know it’s a dead issue but from the outside the Authorities of a game where even the best sides barely get 10,000, dictating as to stadium size is crazy. 3000 in a 4K max stadium even if a bit Mickey Mouse is a better look in my opinion that 3000 in a 9000 seater where 2 or 3 sides are closed and the cameras point at an empty stand. I know which I think looks better and has a better atmosphere.
As to 2 - I’m unsighted on this and in fact from the cheap seats you just can’t tell what’s going on in the Corporate area but what I do feel is that sponsors of all shades from match to training kit seem to get less for their investment. Very few of the sponsors IIRC were formally announced, no match day announcements, no gifs when we score(which we do infrequently) no programme, It’s difficult to see the value. Have we even got more player sponsors than before? I’m not sure we have. Quite a bit of work for the new man to do.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:54 pm  

crashmon wrote:

Yep thats Cliffee ... He got his refund as well. And everybody was a Khazi not just the ref when he really got going. He did come out with some stuff.

And as we was sat right in the corner of the main stand at ealing (next to the away VP's and the radio commentators), it was amusing listening to the commentators having to keep apologising about some of his comments (he never swore, but he was not politically correct).

I sat with Cliff in hospitality at Trailfinders once, it was his birthday. He was with his brother and no trouble at all.

Mind you I travelled by train up to Leeds with Cliff in the carriage. It was first class and he had consumed quite a lot of ginger wine that morning. He was a bit loud to say the least. Quite entertaining though.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:23 pm  

BigTime wrote:

On 1 I know it’s a dead issue but from the outside the Authorities of a game where even the best sides barely get 10,000, dictating as to stadium size is crazy. 3000 in a 4K max stadium even if a bit Mickey Mouse is a better look in my opinion that 3000 in a 9000 seater where 2 or 3 sides are closed and the cameras point at an empty stand. I know which I think looks better and has a better atmosphere.
As to 2 - I’m unsighted on this and in fact from the cheap seats you just can’t tell what’s going on in the Corporate area but what I do feel is that sponsors of all shades from match to training kit seem to get less for their investment. Very few of the sponsors IIRC were formally announced, no match day announcements, no gifs when we score(which we do infrequently) no programme, It’s difficult to see the value. Have we even got more player sponsors than before? I’m not sure we have. Quite a bit of work for the new man to do.

1. Moore Lane, the proposed new home for Salford Red Devils holds 5k with 2,200 seats. Ealing holds 4,000 with 2,200 seats....and is looking at being increased by the start of the 22/23 Onion season....but we're arguing a straw man here.
The reality is Hughes asked where the crowds and revenue was and when the CEO and Commercial Gimp had no valid excuses, they blamed the Landlord/Ground.
Let's be clear here. 5,000 fans at Harlequins RL delivered far greater a}revenue than anything at the Hive, trailfinders or plough lane and b} far greater chance of upselling corporate packages than anything at the Hive, trailfinders or plough lane.
The Owners Dummy Spit, which was preceded by the hiring of Gus and then Powell is 100% why we are teetering on the edge.

The % of the bar take we got at Trailfinders v Plough Lane is a non debate because both are minimal amounts

On the 2nd Point. Visuals sell. A few snaps of sponsors being presented with shirts in a packed bar, people sat around busy tables of 8 eating their pre match meals, Mustard being interviewed in an open forum and not in the corridor, player of the day award etc would all help sell the corporate packages. The fact that these PREMIUM tickets were dropped to 35 quid inside 2 games, along with other prices tells you EXACTLY how that is going.

Hughes needs to admit that he's messed up. Loubser I am afraid has presided over 2 moves, neither of which went well. He was gifted a huge 3rd opportunity when we fluked our way back to SL and they still did little to market it. I care little for Hughes "belief" that RL is THE GREATEST GAME........what he need to understand is that for his decades at the club all he's presided over is a steady decline in interest and associated revenues to the extent that we are worthless to any proposed investor......and that means all Hughes can do is look to hand the keys to either the RFL or someone with the work ethic and charisma to attract the fans back by returning the London Broncos to be a club and not just a team.

This is from his statement at the start of the season. I believe it shows how disconnected he has been from how badly the club has been run for the last decade.

If you are a former pass holder or spectator please take this chance to come back and engage with the Club.

There are plenty who have walked away dismayed at his incompetence, but there are also some who have been driven away by his appointees.........but he blissfully expects reboot#5 to magically work

But we are debating all of the wrong issues here. Without funding we have no team, so the reality was how to get ourselves to the magical 5,000 fans per game paying 1.3 million over the season to watch the team? I had some answers back in 2009......I'm not sure I do now.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 9:37 pm  

Hi,

I am just trying to explain what I think they were trying to do, although it sounds disjointed, and hard to follow.

I suppose I can offer more of a detailed narrative.

1. There is a guy who I think first showed up about 10 years ago. I believe he had some background in coaching at Wakefield, and plenty of connections. He's quite a charming and talkative bloke. Runs his own sports business. Been in the Director's Box for many years. A bit superficial but highly persuasive. However, he isn't capable of media relations, isn't organized, and is erratic and inconsistent. From a pure commercial side he can rightly see that there is limited opportunity at Trailfinders. There's limited opportunity to offer a premium experience at a premium price. But I also saw him as short term and limited in some ways. He was too much of a small business man. If a product line didn't sell he would want to discontinue it, but if you close the shop then you sell nothing. I felt he would close the shop given the chance to stem the losses.

2. The club had a Chief Executive who I like but don't know that well. I think the club had rebuilt quite well from his arrival at Barnet to 2019. I think he became much less influential when person 1 appeared.

3. David Hughes, I have known superficially since about 2006. I understood he was putting in around a couple of million a year as recently as 2 to 3 years ago. I've never got a real view of his wealth, though I have heard suggestions that it may be £80 million. He has seemed to lurch between paying six figure salaries to poor quality and known to be often injured players to seemingly being incapable or unwilling to secure obviously quality players with a good career to come. I could give countless examples where he has described how the academy is vital only for him to end up with all the poop no one wants whilst his best players left for free or near free. He just doesn't seem to want to provide a 3 year contract or protect his assets. In truth, I think he's given up on the club 4 or 5 times only to be like a drug addict who suddenly gets his heart restarted. Each time it happens the club weakens. He flushes everything. Loses good managers, good players, supporter goodwill. I think the AFC Wimbledon move was to a plan, he had approved. But then he seems to get vexed off. I think he gets to the point he feels cheated and like a cards player pushes the table over. I think also he puts a lot of pressure on his coaches. There seems a lot of relationship breakdowns in his tenure.

The cast is there, pulling but not in the same direction.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:21 pm  

markrammond wrote:

There seems a lot of relationship breakdowns in his tenure.

For Farks sake....."do you think"?
When Hughes inherited the club "again" after IL bought Wigan, he immediately broke off meaningful relationships with both the RFL, the other SL chairmen and most importantly, the Landlord.
Not long after we fans got bounced across to the other side of the pitch and for a while had a great matchday experience in the bigger bar area, but gradually the back office staff left or moved and eventually we were introduced to Blanchard and then Gus.
Blanchard was an operations guy. He understood that a business was various moving parts and each part needed "oiled". When Hughes was having none of that, Gus lucked out and got the job on a salary he wasn't entitled to 10% of.....and he started dismantling the parts that needed oiled and instead blamed it all on Quins....the name, the venue, the revenue share......Hughes snide comments recently about 2nd or 3 rd tier Union grounds expose that MacKay played to this weakness with the name change and ultimate move.
I still have the text on my Phone when Barnet accepted us. Our CEO acted like he'd dragged it over the line.......the reality was Hughes was told accept the ground we've found you or you'll be in L1 in 2014......so he relented. Gus lasted a heartbeat after that, as did Grima.......and the mess was Loubsers to inherit.....including Barnet pocketing the 100k as well as the bar takings......
....loubser then finds Trailfinders and negotiates a deal Hughes described as perfect....including DEVELOPING THE GROUND......yet here we are discussing all the "reasons" when the biggest issue is the OWNER!
Thanks Dave.........but F67k OFF and enjoy your retirement. Put us out of our misery. For too long you'vwe wasted OUR CENTRAL FUNDING as well as your own coin on a vanity project......play with your grandkids....

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:47 am  

Victor wrote:

I sat with Cliff in hospitality at Trailfinders once, it was his birthday. He was with his brother and no trouble at all.

Mind you I travelled by train up to Leeds with Cliff in the carriage. It was first class and he had consumed quite a lot of ginger wine that morning. He was a bit loud to say the least. Quite entertaining though.

Why are you even discussing someone who is banned from Fulham football and has attacked 2 opposition RL chairman at Ealing.
He shouldn’t be allowed near a sports arena again never mind being talked up on here. He’s everything modern sport doesn’t need.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:42 am  

wire-quin wrote:

Why are you even discussing someone who is banned from Fulham football and has attacked 2 opposition RL chairman at Ealing.
He shouldn’t be allowed near a sports arena again never mind being talked up on here. He’s everything modern sport doesn’t need.

Don't believe I know the person.....but being banned from a ground isn't new territory in terms of the broncos.
If there were physical attacks on people I agree a ban is warranted.....if verbal then context is needed.
But again were discussing something other than the elephant in the room....HUGHES.

Re: Our 2022 recruitment policy : Wed Apr 20, 2022 9:40 am  

orangeman wrote:

Don't believe I know the person.....but being banned from a ground isn't new territory in terms of the broncos.
If there were physical attacks on people I agree a ban is warranted.....if verbal then context is needed.
But again were discussing something other than the elephant in the room....HUGHES.

Or recruitment