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Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:29 pm  

User avatarRfE wrote:
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jaybs wrote:
we and other clubs are not here to feed Top Super League Clubs!


But that's exactly what we do - and have been doing for a decade or so.
From LMS and Tony Clubb right up to Rob Butler.
Sad really. I had hoped our academy would produce Londoners and Southern players who could play in Super League - they do, but not for us.
Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number--
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you--
Ye are many -- they are few.'

Percy Bysshe Shelley - 'The Mask of Anarchy'



Marvin Gaye - 'Wherever I lay my hat, that's my home' - a motto for London Broncos surely.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:31 pm  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:
Deadcowboys1 Cheeky half-back
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RfE wrote:
But that's exactly what we do - and have been doing for a decade or so.
From LMS and Tony Clubb right up to Rob Butler.
Sad really. I had hoped our academy would produce Londoners and Southern players who could play in Super League - they do, but not for us.


That I think is in part because every year seems to be surrounded with uncertainty, especially since we were relegated from SL in 2014. We therefore don't very often offer contracts of more than 2 years meaning we will struggle to hold onto them if not in SL. Not unreasonable to have a compensation scheme for Academy trained players that move on under the age of 21 or 23 whatever unless they are released by their clubs. It works in football, not perfect but does generate funds for lesser teams.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:27 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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jaybs wrote:
Look at Widnes now, to think how they were such a major club, now struggling to even win?


Let's Look at Widnes as a VERY GOOD example of the experiences of clubs over the SL period.
2002-2005. 6,200 average gate (Division average 8,800) WLD = 39/71/3. Relegated from 11th because of the French Arrival
2006-2007 BOOM or BUST = BUST still with 4,800 average gates still higher than the division average at the time
2007-2011 Rebuild with an investor, building an academy and reconnecting with the community and 3,200 averages, still above average
2012-2014 3 Seasons free of the threat of relegation saw last, 10th and then a play-off finish (39/59/3) and a rising on year an base of 6,500 average (10k SL ave).
2015-2018......once again looking over their shoulders at the drop, Widnes returned to type and eventually lost their fans, their owner and their SL status but maintained a 5.5k average gate over this period until they dropped down.

My point is that the period where the Widnes team & club grew in stature and support numbers was the period where they didn't have to look over their shoulders. The return of the drop saw the risk for the owner too great and the spend required to continue the build but also ensure survival was too much.

Put it this way. Let's say Featherstone Rovers beat the odds and get promoted this year and replace say, Wakefield. Do you see anything other than Fev going straight back down on the back of 20+ hammerings and Wakefield drifting into Oblivion in 2022?

Do you see anything other than the 4 survivors this year from HKR/SALFORD/HUDDERSFIELD/WAKEFIELD/LEIGH competing with the newly promoted side with the sole aim of keeping their noses in the trough only to repeat the struggle in 2023?

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:46 pm  

User avatarjbuzza wrote:
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orangeman wrote:
Do you see anything other than the 4 survivors this year from HKR/SALFORD/HUDDERSFIELD/WAKEFIELD/LEIGH competing with the newly promoted side with the sole aim of keeping their noses in the trough only to repeat the struggle in 2023?

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....


The solution to this could be to reduce the size of SL and have a better promotion & relegation contest.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:03 am  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:
Deadcowboys1 Cheeky half-back
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:10 pm
Posts: 606
jbuzza wrote:
The solution to this could be to reduce the size of SL and have a better promotion & relegation contest.


Doubt a 6 or 8 team Super League would be attractive to any broadcaster. Would be like when the Scottish FA came up with their system where Celtic played Rangers & co 4 times a season. :shock:

Might be better to enlarge to 15. Spread the payments out more & get rid of loop fixtures & magic weekend. If there then is room for a Magic Weekend, make it a festival of 7s or 9s for the 3 leagues.

Perhaps the big question is why is there such a large disparity between 12 teams where a salary cap has been in force for so many years & everyone seems to claim to be spending to the cap?
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:30 am  

User avatarjaybs wrote:
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orangeman wrote:
Let's Look at Widnes as a VERY GOOD example

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....


Interesting with Widnes in their real glory days, they were run by a committee, then the businessman in recent years came in, pumped money into the club, and they went backwards? and I think they are back to being committee only.

Look at Ken Davey Huddersfield Giants, it was his wife who was interested in RL, not him, he then owned the football club, which he has now relinquished all interests in, since taking over the rugby league club, how much has he put in, but little success, and he sold one of his companies in 2001 for £75 Million!

I am also getting to the stage that some Super League games are just boring, friends are so looking forward to tonight with Saints at home to Huddersfield, but it does not interest me at all, we can tell what will happen now without looking in the crystal ball, which is boring, as well as putting up with the 2 clowns co-commentating!
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:27 pm  

wantawin wrote:
wantawin Strong-running second rower
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:28 am
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jaybs wrote:
How many transfer fees have we received to feed Super League clubs along the M62 corridor over the years? We can all list a team of players we have developed, that would make a fine Super League team, I have said over and over again, Any Club who develops young players, should receive a reasonable fee, we and other clubs are not here to feed Top Super League Clubs!

This will never happen all of the time you have the SL club owners making the rules, they will not want to spend money on buying good academy players.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:57 pm  

User avatarjaybs wrote:
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wantawin wrote:
This will never happen all of the time you have the SL club owners making the rules, they will not want to spend money on buying good academy players.


Yes! But it should & must happen, in my BARLA days we had to fight to get the £50 which had been agreed by all Parties.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:21 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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Deadcowboys1 wrote:
That I think is in part because every year seems to be surrounded with uncertainty.

Not really.....the only thing we're uncertain of is if THIS IS THE YEAR that Hughes walks. We're like Wire but without the forlorn hope :D
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NRL RND: 20 Sydney28-0Parramatta
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NRL RND: 19 Souths60-22NZ Warriors
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Fri 23rd Jul
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This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 18
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Melbourne 17 632 198 434 30
Penrith 17 493 179 314 30
Souths 17 503 346 157 28
Parramatta 17 474 255 219 26
Sydney 17 453 335 118 22
Manly 17 485 354 131 20
St.George 17 358 382 -24 16
Cronulla 17 326 394 -68 14
 
Canberra 17 347 421 -74 14
Newcastle 17 283 420 -137 14
Gold Coast 17 394 468 -74 12
Wests 17 372 502 -130 12
NQL Cowboys 17 324 527 -203 12
NZ Warriors 17 333 426 -93 10
Brisbane 17 282 542 -260 8
Canterbury 17 212 522 -310 4
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 16
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Catalans 15 459 246 213 28 186.59 93.33
St.Helens 12 286 96 190 20 297.92 83.33
Warrington 14 429 221 208 21 194.12 75
Wigan 16 255 289 -34 20 88.24 62.50
Hull FC 13 298 237 61 15 125.74 57.69
Hull KR 11 271 244 27 12 111.07 54.55
 
Leeds 15 354 263 91 16 134.60 53.33
Castleford 14 251 354 -103 12 70.90 42.86
Salford 14 237 405 -168 8 58.52 28.57
Huddersfield 15 244 318 -74 8 76.73 26.67
Wakefield 16 279 394 -115 8 70.81 25
Leigh 13 212 508 -296 0 41.73 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 14
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 9 433 88 345 18 492.05 100
Featherstone 13 573 166 407 26 345.18 100
Halifax 14 398 199 199 20 200 71.43
Bradford 13 354 315 39 18 112.38 69.23
LondonB 13 374 337 37 17 110.98 65.38
Batley 14 370 286 84 18 129.37 64.29
 
Widnes 13 307 344 -37 11 89.24 42.31
Newcastle 13 284 400 -116 11 71 42.31
Sheffield 14 313 413 -100 11 75.79 39.29
Whitehaven 14 277 396 -119 11 69.95 39.29
York 14 345 327 18 10 105.50 35.71
Dewsbury 13 197 379 -182 9 51.98 34.62
Oldham 13 190 470 -280 4 40.43 15.38
Swinton 14 234 529 -295 0 44.23 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
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Barrow 10 342 150 192 17 228 85
Workington 9 334 158 176 15 211.39 83.33
Doncaster 9 308 189 119 14 162.96 77.78
Keighley 10 348 239 109 10 145.61 50
Rochdale 10 279 280 -1 10 99.64 50
Crusaders 10 278 318 -40 10 87.42 50
 
Coventry 8 204 240 -36 8 85 50
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LondonS 8 154 292 -138 2 52.74 12.50
West Wales 10 122 514 -392 0 23.74 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
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LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
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BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
 
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
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