: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:01 am  

mutt1 wrote:

It's not often i'd say this but boy i wish i was australian I've said it before and i'll say it again i can't wait to leave this island and join my girlfriends family in the land of the free.

Mut matey, do you not see the irony in your post?

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:22 am  

mr. chairman wrote:

after eight pages of debate on this subject surely ther is something not right with our country

The real problem is that there's something seriously wrong with the global economy (I believe a fatal flaw brought about by the debt based economic system - but thats another matter entirely) and now were all looking for scapegoats.

The BNP have decided that immigrants are their scapegoat of choice, when IMO every member of the working class should target the real villains who created this sorry mess, the greedy Banksters and all the other Multi-National Corporate institutions that play off the workers of the world in a race to the bottom in regards wages, working conditions etc.

That said, I can't condone the attack on the BNP guy just because he has radical political views I disagree with. I too have extreme views (leaning far left these days) and I would hate to think I'd get smashed around the head for merely voicing an ideological worldview that somebody disagreed with.

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:27 am  

Ahh politics.... but is the pope catholic?

o/t bnp : Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:42 am  

LeighGionaire wrote:

The real problem is that there's something seriously wrong with the global economy (I believe a fatal flaw brought about by the debt based economic system - but thats another matter entirely) and now were all looking for scapegoats.

The BNP have decided that immigrants are their scapegoat of choice, when IMO every member of the working class should target the real villains who created this sorry mess, the greedy Banksters and all the other Multi-National Corporate institutions that play off the workers of the world in a race to the bottom in regards wages, working conditions etc.

That said, I can't condone the attack on the BNP guy just because he has radical political views I disagree with. I too have extreme views (leaning far left these days) and I would hate to think I'd get smashed around the head for merely voicing an ideological worldview that somebody disagreed with.

Mostly agree but infront of (w)Bankers you missed out incompetant, thick, short sighted, overpaid featherbedded excessively featherbedded shameless, it was the other guys fault,50 year old Scottish failure now on £700000 a year for life.

Mind you there always be those who blame immigration, which surprisingly some think will be ok if they become am immigrant.

bnp in leigh : Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:23 am  

what I would like to know is what on earth is this subject doing on a fans forum. surely a fans forum should be just about rugby matters, We should leave subjects like this to Leigh Life. where the members of the closed shop on there can gossip away to their hearts content about this and anything else that is uninteresting. Please lets keep it real

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:01 am  

The Kevster! wrote:

You wanna try living in my house then next door to a bunch of wasters with no jobs who don't speak a word of the Queen's and don't care how much noise they make any day or night of the week.

None of them work and they must be claiming every benefit under the sun. It's an absolute disgrace. I've nothing against anyone who wants to come here and add something to the country and fit in but people like this want throwing back on the boat.

Er, except they aren't. YOur blithe assertion makes exactly the point, that most prejudice against immigrants and asylum seekers is based on ignorance and assumption. Alex's Das has nicely pointed out a benefit that only asylum seekers receive... but hasn't pointed out that this is ALL they get.

Asylum seekers aren't allowed to work. They can't calim incomse support, or jobseekers, or housing benefit, or anything else. WE house and feed them. They live where they are put, and have no choice in it. They get utilities paid, and then they get, at most, £66.13 for a couple, to live on. They must follow these terms for as long as it takes to examine their case for asylum. Asylum is only granted if it can be shown that they are in danger or imprisonment, torture or death in their country of origin, and then only for things that we would not consider a crime (such as having left a particular religion, or for expressing a particular point of view). If they don't meet the criteria, or come from a country which our government has deemed safe, they are sent home.

If it can be shown that they entered the UK through a country in which they could first have claimed asylum, they are sent there. Relatively few people are actually granted asylum. Many seek to come to the UK, because in the last 400 years Britain invaded and colonised much of the world.. hence our culture, language and values are taught in many places as the model of a tolerant society (there is some irony here), and also because, as a result of that, there are millions of people all over the world who have distant relatives who hae been British for one, two or more generations.

If they aren't asylum seekers, they are immigrants. If they are not EU citizens, but have come here legally, they have had to fulfil stringent entry criteria. If they are EU citizens, they have as much right to be here as you have to be in their country of origin. If they are from EU accession countries like Poland, Hugary, The Czech republic, Slovakia etc, then they are not entitled to benefits, and if they are from old EU countries like France, Ireland, Spain and Italy, then you are entitled to claim the equvalent benefits as a local if you go there.

If they haven't fulfilled the criteria or are claiming benefits they aren't entitled to, they are breaking the law, simple as that. If they get caught, they'll be treated in the same juducial system as a British cheat, with the added bonus of being deported after they've finished their sentence (or occasionally to serve their sentences in their ow country, in a reciprocal arrangement by which we take back British prisoners convicted abroad).

You wanna try living next door to a bunch of wasters who are white anglo-saxon wasters born and bred for generations in this country. There's plenty of them about. Every society has them, and while its as true of immigrant communities as it is of ancient britons, that has nothing to do with them being immigrants, and eveything to do with them being wasters.

Last up, the Queen's English is an interesting phrase. The Queen's family name is Saxe-Coberg Goetha, from which you might correctly assume the royals are German (its just that being german wasn't so clever in1914, so they called themselves Windsor). Queenie is married to a Greek. Now, if ever there was a sponging imigrant who contributed nothing and took millions from the British taxpayer, it was Prince Phillip. But his son (maybe) and Grandson will one day be the King of England. Go figure.

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:45 am  

Wembley71 wrote:

Now, if ever there was a sponging imigrant who contributed nothing and took millions from the British taxpayer, it was Prince Phillip.

Nothing what you have written can be argued against, though it does suggest that the ideal system is in place and being strictly adheared to.

We both know that doesn't represent what is actually happening.

If the system was so clear cut, why do so many pass through countless other countries to get here? There is a reason, and its not the glorious weather we have.

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:59 am  

Alexs Dad wrote:

:lol:

Nothing what you have written can be argued against, though it does suggest that the ideal system is in place and being strictly adheared to.

We both know that doesn't represent what is actually happening.

If the system was so clear cut, why do so many pass through countless other countries to get here? There is a reason, and its not the glorious weather we have.

Naah, the reason is after 400 years of empire, and after encouraging mass immigration in the post-war decades, literally millions of people all over the world have relatives here.

The system we have in place is fine in theory, it just needs policing and enforcing, and that's a question of resources and political will, and even then, there will always be lawbreakers. Murder's illegal but it still happens.

It is very difficult to get into the UK legally... just ask the Australian players who aren't playing NL1 this season. If you get in illegally, that's not the fault of the system, and unless you're forging documents and lying through your teeth, you don;t suddenly qualify for handouts, you get sent home.

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:11 pm  

Michael_Ward wrote:

People are not grasping this - the only people who get any sort of special treatment are asylum seekers, and they have to meet some very stringent criteria to get the help they deserve.

Every other problem is one that is much a problem amongst white British as it is amongst those from other countries. Those issues need dealing with, but the solutions will affect all and not just the foreign.

Don't let xenophobia cloud your judgement. This country has a lot of problems, but very few of those problems are caused by immigrants.

You are wasting your breath, you really are.
Sadly.

: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:48 pm  

[quote="Wembley71"]

The system we have in place is fine in theory, it just needs policing and enforcing[quote]

Agreed, and there lies the heart of the problem. I'm bored of the rest now.

Now then, these bone idle theiving workshy junkie British layabouts you mention.