Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 12:59 pm  

So you know how there were a fair few people wanting Wane as our manager? And you know how a fair few on here said Hill and Cooper weren’t up to the job (Can you tell what it is yet?). So with Wane selecting both of them for England should those who wanted Wane change their minds, or those who called Hill and Coops not good enough do a volte face?
Fill your boots.

Re: Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:16 pm  

In previous internationals ,Hill & Cooper were arguably better than the Burgess brothers.
I fully expect them to be better next season than the players we have coming in from Oz the South of France.

Re: Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:30 pm  

I’m not sure it’s just a case of ‘not good enough’.

Firstly, with Hill we would have had to sign him up for two years at a salary likely to be similar to his last contract. If we had ended up limping out of the playoffs again this year, we’d be on here ranting about not spending our money more appropriately.

Secondly, it was a question of removing the ‘old guard’. The coaching team had been tasked by the club with changing our playing style, leadership, and general attitude issues. I have no knowledge of the inner workings of the squad, but I’d be willing to bet that the coach told the club he needed to identify the root cause of why an expensively assembled team never managed to equate to the sum of its parts. I’m sure that a stale ‘old guard’ with a negative mindset wasn’t going to help change our usual damp squib grand final push.

And that brings me to Cooper. I really like Cooper and I think he’s a great prop. A great leader he clearly is not. It’s difficult when a club has established and popular parts of the woodwork (and in the leadership group) fighting against what the coach has been tasked with.

When you have two players so ingrained in the club, it’s hard to expect to revolutionise the mindset of the squad when said players push back. I guess we’ll know soon if Powell has what it takes to turn our now lesser quality squad into a team that is actually greater than the sum of its parts. He won’t have long to do it, mind!

Re: Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 1:39 pm  

Re: Cooper and Hill being better than what we’ve got coming in, it’s hard to say. Vaughan and Maguire (despite not being a typical prop) are arguably seasoned internationals, and younger. Raw-quality wise they’re every bit as good I think. It’s just a case of whether they can do it in a potentially nervous Warrington squad.

Put another way - If Steve Price had stayed for 2022 and signed Vaughan and Maguire to replace an ageing Hill and Cooper, promising therm as the sort of on-field leaders we need in the playoffs, I’d have been very happy.

Re: Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:09 pm  

I think Vaughan, Dudson, Kasiano & Mikaele are our strongest set of 4 props we have had for a long time, well supported by Philbin & Bullock.

It doesn't really matter how Hill & Coops perform once they've left the club or what they go on to achieve. Fact is we needed change, they were part of the old guard that failed to deliver a Grand Final win, I don't think we supported them well enough with additional prop signings of quality, but the past is the past.

It was the right time for both to move on I think to enable change. I wish it hadn't been so acrimonious, and I would have like to see what 2 props such as Kasiano & Mikaele could have done alongside Hill & Coops a few years back, but we are where we are.

Re: Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 3:13 pm  

Big fan of Cooper, but based on what I've seen this season I think he's very lucky to be selected ahead of oledski.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Props : Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:29 pm  

easyWire wrote:

I’m not sure it’s just a case of ‘not good enough’.

Firstly, with Hill we would have had to sign him up for two years at a salary likely to be similar to his last contract. If we had ended up limping out of the playoffs again this year, we’d be on here ranting about not spending our money more appropriately.

Secondly, it was a question of removing the ‘old guard’. The coaching team had been tasked by the club with changing our playing style, leadership, and general attitude issues. I have no knowledge of the inner workings of the squad, but I’d be willing to bet that the coach told the club he needed to identify the root cause of why an expensively assembled team never managed to equate to the sum of its parts. I’m sure that a stale ‘old guard’ with a negative mindset wasn’t going to help change our usual damp squib grand final push.

And that brings me to Cooper. I really like Cooper and I think he’s a great prop. A great leader he clearly is not. It’s difficult when a club has established and popular parts of the woodwork (and in the leadership group) fighting against what the coach has been tasked with.

When you have two players so ingrained in the club, it’s hard to expect to revolutionise the mindset of the squad when said players push back. I guess we’ll know soon if Powell has what it takes to turn our now lesser quality squad into a team that is actually greater than the sum of its parts. He won’t have long to do it, mind!

thats typical fans 'degree in hindsight'.you'd had fans calling him rotten for giving penalties away and losing us games, when he left it was a disasterous decision to let him go

Same thing going on with toby king now, "he's useless, he can't defend, we're overpaying him, the board making terrible recruitment decisions"

Whereas at the time, he was the form centre in the league, he was an england international, just come off being a dream team member, people were saying the board were making a terrible recruitment decision if they let an academy player leave to a rival (saints)

[BOBBIE_IS_SUPERMAN]

Re: Props : Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:30 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

thats typical fans 'degree in hindsight'.you'd had fans calling him rotten for giving penalties away and losing us games, when he left it was a disasterous decision to let him go

Same thing going on with toby king now, "he's useless, he can't defend, we're overpaying him, the board making terrible recruitment decisions"

Whereas at the time, he was the form centre in the league, he was an england international, just come off being a dream team member, people were saying the board were making a terrible recruitment decision if they let an academy player leave to a rival (saints)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing .
However I never got the "Love in" with Toby King .Distinctively I remember Josh Charnley trying to give him a lesson on how to pass mid game and thinking to myself this is under 8's stuff this Toby.
But he could catch a high Kick, Shame after Austin went rubbish we never put any that way

Re: Props : Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:37 am  

Dudson will have to serve his full suspension for us.

He has not been included in the Wales World Cup squad because he would have been unavailable for their 1st three games.

Re: Props : Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:38 am  

BOBBIE_IS_SUPERMAN wrote:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing .
However I never got the "Love in" with Toby King .Distinctively I remember Josh Charnley trying to give him a lesson on how to pass mid game and thinking to myself this is under 8's stuff this Toby.
But he could catch a high Kick, Shame after Austin went rubbish we never put any that way

Is it possible that Charnley was trying to deflect blame for something he had got wrong? Like Matt King used to blame Kev Penny in his first season for defensive misreads?
I only ask because whatever the level of incompetence is levelled at the club I find it very difficult to believe that in all the years he was with us none of his coaches noticed he couldn’t pass.