: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:21 am  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

My criticism of Darbyshire/ the back room staff in particular was they were all from the same stock. They had come from the tutelage of the Johnson and Van de Velde era, whether this was a good or bad thing is open to debate. But where was the differing ideas and techniques going to come from when their education was all from the same sources? As for a player winning things, take a look at the best coachs knocking about; Bennett and Bellamy, hardly star players. Hasler, maybe open to an element of debate In SL; Anderson, Smith and McLennan, hardly littered with medals. I for one am happy that Lowes came in as assistant, for the exact reasons I have stated above, irrelevant of his playing career.

You raise an good point about injuries. Stridgeon stated that training on heavy pitches, ie; Long Lane would increase the chances of injury. I can't quite remember the specific area he highlighted, but it was an instigation of us going to Leigh to train on their 3G pitch.

If Stridgeon wasn't at the top of his profession, then the RFU wouldn't have come knocking for him to become the England fitness coach.

My scepticism of Halmshaw is his experience, conditioning an Academy squad doesn't exactly correlate with going to a first team set up. As has been mentioned many times, the difference in levels on the playing side would verify this. Or are you advocating we should give an important role to someone learing on the job?

I'd like to know how you condition against injuries in an impact sport? Pulls and strains, possibly. Dislocations and ruptures, please explain how you avoid these?

Of course I agree with you, the reason we picked up injuries wasn't to do with who the conditioner was, I was just being a smartbooty because thats what people were saying the last few years, blaming the conditioner....yet nobody has given Halmshaw 'credit' for our relatively injury free season which has enabled us at last to use our first teamers rather than relying on promoted academy players.

As for the backroom staff surely the relevant point is who the coach wants. The head coach and assistants have got to be singing from the same hymn sheet, so the head coach needs to have 'his men' onside. I would always give the head coach choice of who he wants to appoint and support that, the flip side is the head coach takes the responsibility for the results, so if they aren't good enough he should go. It's really impossible for anybody outside the camp to know how good an assistant coach/conditioner etc is at his job...commenting on it is just guesswork.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:21 am  

The Centres and halfbacks banging on the door......Centre Hurst...Halfback O'Brien. Both great prospects.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am  

gogreen wrote:

The Centres and halfbacks banging on the door......Centre Hurst...Halfback O'Brien. Both great prospects.

Good to hear.

I would like to see Bridge at left centre, but there is definately a place on the other side.

As for O'Brien, could maybe start him on the bench and then bring him on at 7 with Monaghan acting as the replacement hooker.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:31 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Of course I agree with you, the reason we picked up injuries wasn't to do with who the conditioner was, I was just being a smartbooty because thats what people were saying the last few years, blaming the conditioner....yet nobody has given Halmshaw 'credit' for our relatively injury free season which has enabled us at last to use our first teamers rather than relying on promoted academy players.

As for the backroom staff surely the relevant point is who the coach wants. The head coach and assistants have got to be singing from the same hymn sheet, so the head coach needs to have 'his men' onside. I would always give the head coach choice of who he wants to appoint and support that, the flip side is the head coach takes the responsibility for the results, so if they aren't good enough he should go. It's really impossible for anybody outside the camp to know how good an assistant coach/conditioner etc is at his job...commenting on it is just guesswork.

I wouldn't use the term 'injury free' we are nine games in and haven't had a long termer (there goes me putting a hex on things), but we are missing Riley, Anderson and Briers. Players who would be starting, if injuries were not prohibiting that. My personal take is that injuries eally are the luck of the draw, no amount of preparation will stop studs getting caught in the turf and twisting a knee. My take on conditioning is endurance. Do tyou have enough to track back and make that tackle in the 79th minute, although I do accept it is a laymans view on it.

I'm not quite sure I agree about singing from the same hymn sheet. By all means an assisitant should buy into the philosphy of a head coach, but he should also be in a positon to offer a differing opinion if it will improve things. See Phil Neal as reference in the England setup.

PS

I would question our ability to attract people from outside the club, bearing in mind our perilous financial state in the early 2000s.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:32 am  

Totally agree firewire, i do no that smith has attended a session or two of the reserves so i guess he is already on the case. My origanal post was one of annoyance at some fans wanting other journeyman pros at the club. Signing a top nrl player Johnathan Thurston or Paul Gallen then yes please, SBW then no thanks ..

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:50 am  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

I wouldn't use the term 'injury free' we are nine games in and haven't had a long termer (there goes me putting a hex on things), but we are missing Riley, Anderson and Briers. Players who would be starting, if injuries were not prohibiting that. My personal take is that injuries eally are the luck of the draw, no amount of preparation will stop studs getting caught in the turf and twisting a knee. My take on conditioning is endurance. Do tyou have enough to track back and make that tackle in the 79th minute, although I do accept it is a laymans view on it.

I'm not quite sure I agree about singing from the same hymn sheet. By all means an assisitant should buy into the philosphy of a head coach, but he should also be in a positon to offer a differing opinion if it will improve things. See Phil Neal as reference in the England setup.

PS

I would question our ability to attract people from outside the club, bearing in mind our perilous financial state in the early 2000s.

I'm not sure whether endurance is the correct term although i think i understand where you're coming from. I would see the conditioning as more the body's ability to recover quickly. Where i'm coming from is that i wouldn't see a benefit of a group of players who can run around a pitch 10 times without stopping (endurance) whereas i would see a benefit in a team being able to move in then back 10 metres say 10 times (recovery).

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:56 am  

Andy Wire wrote:

I'm not sure whether endurance is the correct term although i think i understand where you're coming from. I would see the conditioning as more the body's ability to recover quickly. Where i'm coming from is that i wouldn't see a benefit of a group of players who can run around a pitch 10 times without stopping (endurance) whereas i would see a benefit in a team being able to move in then back 10 metres say 10 times (recovery).

That was what i was trying to say, in my cobbled fashion. It is having the ability to make a tackle, get back and make another without missing, ie fatigue not playing a part in making an error of judgment too.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:02 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

That was what i was trying to say, in my cobbled fashion. It is having the ability to make a tackle, get back and make another without missing, ie fatigue not playing a part in making an error of judgment too.

I think it's mental conditioning as well as physical. For example, against Hull KR, all 17 players seemed to be switched on to making the extra effort throughout the game. Yet since then, several shortcuts have begun sneaking back in the game. Players walking when a jog would have got them in a better position, quicker for example.

And two pieces of shocking defending from the weekend which I feel must be as much down to mental "switching off" as physical fatigue. Firstly Hicks embarassingly poor attempt at defending Myler's grubber kick on Friday when he pushed a Salford player out of the way instead of going for the ball and then Johnson on Monday, making a feeble attempt at tackling Wainwright.

: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:05 pm  

Good Idea Firewire. Bridge would be great at Centre and with Hurst in the other Centre roll, it would work well....Monagahan would b a great hooker replacement and O'Brien on the bench coming on at 7 would be a good option, giving the young halfback, some experience at first grade