Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:55 pm  

jonh wrote:

The ability of Wigans centres and wingers to carry the ball out of our own half is one of the key attributes as to why we have had a successful season.

King contribution may not thrill you but it goes a long way towards helping you win games.

pointless argument some people will be happy being entertained but not winning !!

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:10 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

Of course they were an issue. If you're disrespecting the coach then you're obviously an issue.

Respect works both ways.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:18 pm  

Alffi_7 wrote:

This seems a bizarre argument, his best form for Warrington came as a left sided centre in 2021 from which he got his latest contract, you can google Toby King 2021 and see a lovely highlight reel of him playing as a left sided centre, no international recognition that year - given there was no international RL. His form dropped in 2022 for other reasons, maybe some complacency after signing a new deal, more likely how he perceived he was being treated by Powell but certainly not from playing on the left, given he was 2 & 1/2 years in at that point and he's stated he played there for the academy and was his favoured side.

He clearly is a good centre on either side of the field and is far better than any centre we had in 2023. He's had plenty of time at left and right centre, but that isn't the point you are arguing, you are saying his form dipped when we moved him to the left, which is untrue, he had a good 2020 and a very good 2021....

Had he been on a wage relative to his quality I would be delighted to have him back, unfortunately we overpaid which means we are tied to having him as a marquee, for that reason I don't think he is value for money - irrespective of me thinking he is a good player.

I asked earlier, would you have him back at Wigan on marquee wages, so having to drop one of your higher paid players to accommodate him, French or Field for example?

All the stats indicate he plays better on the right.

He only moved to the left when you signed an out and out right sided player in Gelling.

Square pegs round holes.

It isn’t his fault you guys threw silly money at him.

If it came down to it I’d have retained King but that was never an option just like Wardle signing for Wire was never an option.

If you throw in the effect signing King would have on our ability to build a squad looking to go back to back then it’s Wardle as we need Thompson to replace Smithies whilst retaining French and Field.

The question I can answer is out of King and Wardle who has been more effective in 2023 and in my opinion King has been the most influential signing of the two in 2023.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:19 pm  

The_runaround wrote:

pointless argument some people will be happy being entertained but not winning !!

Us Wire fans have not experienced either recently.

This is all a moot argument anyway. It appears he is coming back. Some people rave about him, some don't. Post contract he stunk the place out with us and had disciplinary issues before we sent him to Huddersfield, since then he has made thinly veiled jibes about his time at Warrington. What is it that you to read?

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:31 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

Of course they were an issue. If you're disrespecting the coach then you're obviously an issue.

They had a point though, really.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but looking back at the Powell spell it’s a train wreck. Todays England squad announcement is evidence enough of that, he got rid of Hill, King, Mulhearn and allowed Clark to leave. All of them in the squad. Mulhearn aside, there’s no surprise that they are in there. And Charnley can count himself unlucky, and Cooper was in last year but not available through injury this time around.

5 of 24 are in our 2024 squad, 3 are ex-Warrington players. One third of the squad is/was at Powell’s disposal, and served up the worst two years of results in 20 years.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:48 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

They had a point though, really.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but looking back at the Powell spell it’s a train wreck. Todays England squad announcement is evidence enough of that, he got rid of Hill, King, Mulhearn and allowed Clark to leave. All of them in the squad. Mulhearn aside, there’s no surprise that they are in there. And Charnley can count himself unlucky, and Cooper was in last year but not available through injury this time around.

5 of 24 are in our 2024 squad, 3 are ex-Warrington players. One third of the squad is/was at Powell’s disposal, and served up the worst two years of results in 20 years.

How many of those players you cite were in the the wire sides that bombed out of the playoffs 3 years running?

Powell ultimately failed but he knew a comfort zone when he saw one.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 2:58 pm  

I just hope King hasn't been pulling his tripe in the faint hope of a contract at Wigan. The proof of his effort & commitment, or lack off , will shine in the 2024 season.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:08 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

They had a point though, really.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but looking back at the Powell spell it’s a train wreck. Todays England squad announcement is evidence enough of that, he got rid of Hill, King, Mulhearn and allowed Clark to leave. All of them in the squad. Mulhearn aside, there’s no surprise that they are in there. And Charnley can count himself unlucky, and Cooper was in last year but not available through injury this time around.

5 of 24 are in our 2024 squad, 3 are ex-Warrington players. One third of the squad is/was at Powell’s disposal, and served up the worst two years of results in 20 years.

Did he? Just because King and Charnley have learnt from their mistakes doesn't mean Powell was wrong. I have it on good authority King refused to get on the team coach after an away game and undermined Powell, he also forgot his passport against Catalans. Cooper, we all know what happened there regarding his second business. These players obviously learnt from their mistakes and didn't commit them again at their other clubs.

I'm probably Powell's least biggest fan but as for Clark going to Saints you absolutely cannot pin that on Powell.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:58 pm  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

Did he? Just because King and Charnley have learnt from their mistakes doesn't mean Powell was wrong. I have it on good authority King refused to get on the team coach after an away game and undermined Powell, he also forgot his passport against Catalans. Cooper, we all know what happened there regarding his second business. These players obviously learnt from their mistakes and didn't commit them again at their other clubs.

I'm probably Powell's least biggest fan but as for Clark going to Saints you absolutely cannot pin that on Powell.

Sack him then. If he’s breached his contract, or brought the club into disrepute, or plain insubordination, sack him. Don’t pay him to go and win a title with a rival. This is not fully Powell’s fault, as I’ve said throughout it’s the management broadly, including Powell. If the business let Cooper do X, Y and Z then they should build in a minimum standards or a clause in his contract to reflect that. If they’ve not, and they’ve given permission for him to do that for the betterment of his post-RL career, they are the ones that need to renegotiate those terms. So long as Cooper’s attendance/performance hasn’t changed, he’s kept to his side of the deal that pre-dates Powell. Not sure what lesson Charnley learned, he’s the same player he always has been.

This isn’t a Powell thing, it’s idiotic, chaotic and catastrophic mismanagement of a business.

The point about Clark, and that list, is that he had all of those players at his disposal and couldn’t get a tune out of them. Wane believes that 8 of our current/recent English players are in the best 24 available right now, but we couldn’t beat an egg. Clark may have still left, but you have a chance of keeping them if you’re playing well and building something.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 4:39 pm  

Good post. I heard we wanted to keep Mulhearn but his wage expectation was higher than ours. That happens at times. In hindsight we should have kept Mulhearn and avoided Dudson.