: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:29 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

With Kevin Penny you get what you see which is a kid that has pace to burn who has been thrown onto a rugby league field, his positional sense is still poor and he doesn`t seem to be learning a great deal. Chris Riley who has had far less 1st team chances than Kevin Penny has certainly improved at a faster rate of knots, Chris Riley still has things to learn but he has certainly shown more improvement than Kevin Penny in a similar timescale. I`m not knocking Penny as its giving an opinion based on what we have seen of him, i hope he goes on to be a Warrington great but i can`t see it based on what ive seen so far.

Kevin Penny reminds me a lot of Paul White and to some extent Richie Barnett, all 3 of these had one thing in common which was blistering pace but all 3 of them looked like should have been wearing L plates whilst on a rugby league pitch as none of them have looked natural rugby league players. Both Paul White and Richie Barnet found their level at Salford before Barnett was given a 2 year ban for failing a drug test.

I'm not sure what you mean that Riley has had far less first team chances, they have played pretty much the same amount of games. Add to this Riley's greater amateur experience, I'm not quite sure you are compring like-for-like.

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:59 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean that Riley has had far less first team chances, they have played pretty much the same amount of games. Add to this Riley's greater amateur experience, I'm not quite sure you are compring like-for-like.

Yes they have made a similar amount of appearances but 11 of Chris Riley`s appearances have been as a sub, Chris Riley always seemed to get overlooked and i doubt he would ever have got many games at all if it hadn`t of been for our injuries over the last few years.

In theory and in a lot of ways it was better for Kevin Penny that he went straight into the pro game as he would of got taught the right way of doing things from the start and wouldn`t of picked up a lot of the bad habits that you can do in the amatuer game, also he would get far more personal coaching in a 1 on 1 situation than you get in the amatuer game due to lack of resources in that area. Anyway the pro game is totally different from amatuer game as its a lot cleaner and a lot faster at pro level, it will have been a totally new experience for Chris Riley as well as you hear so many pros say that you can`t compare the amatuer game to the pro game as they are so different.

Kevin Penny 35 appearances 1 as sub

Chris Riley 37 appearances 11 as sub

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:13 pm  

I'd have Riley fullback. Gleeson and Penny on the right. Johnson and Hicks on the left. Briers and Bridge 6 and 7. Monaghan starting hooker for both halfs with Higham to come off the bench for the last 20 of each half. Clarke at loose.

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:36 pm  

Bobbie_the_coach wrote:

Its man marking. You stay 1 foot outside the opposite Winger. Then you aint gonna get caught out. If everyone marked their man there would be no 10 metre gap

you're not really a coach are you Bobbie....I bet you're not even called Bobbie

I think its best explained in Pictures:

Ive moved Kevin Penny to where you want him..(well almost, as Gardners right on the touchline already)

do i have to explain what the big red thing is...

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:52 pm  

the flying biscuit wrote:

you're not really a coach are you Bobbie....I bet you're not even called Bobbie

I think its best explained in Pictures:

Ive moved Kevin Penny to where you want him..(well almost, as Gardners right on the touchline already)

do i have to explain what the big red thing is...

PMSL, but incidently so very true, lol

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:07 pm  

the flying biscuit wrote:

you're not really a coach are you Bobbie....I bet you're not even called Bobbie

I think its best explained in Pictures:

Ive moved Kevin Penny to where you want him..(well almost, as Gardners right on the touchline already)

do i have to explain what the big red thing is...

Exactly what I said, but he's still not having it.

keithcun wrote:

Jesus wept.

And if Penny did that they would waltz through the 10 metre gap between him and the rest of the defence (King mainly).

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:24 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

With Kevin Penny you get what you see which is a kid that has pace to burn who has been thrown onto a rugby league field, his positional sense is still poor and he doesn`t seem to be learning a great deal. Chris Riley who has had far less 1st team chances than Kevin Penny has certainly improved at a faster rate of knots, Chris Riley still has things to learn but he has certainly shown more improvement than Kevin Penny in a similar timescale. I`m not knocking Penny as its giving an opinion based on what we have seen of him, i hope he goes on to be a Warrington great but i can`t see it based on what ive seen so far.

Kevin Penny reminds me a lot of Paul White and to some extent Richie Barnett, all 3 of these had one thing in common which was blistering pace but all 3 of them looked like should have been wearing L plates whilst on a rugby league pitch as none of them have looked natural rugby league players. Both Paul White and Richie Barnet found their level at Salford before Barnett was given a 2 year ban for failing a drug test.

Penny has alot more than either of them, the ability to change direction and pace quickly a bit of a step he also has great control when kicking a live ball, why do people insist on putting down our most dangerous weapon is beyond me.

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:13 pm  

Rob Wire wrote:

With Kevin Penny you get what you see which is a kid that has pace to burn who has been thrown onto a rugby league field, his positional sense is still poor and he doesn`t seem to be learning a great deal. Chris Riley who has had far less 1st team chances than Kevin Penny has certainly improved at a faster rate of knots, Chris Riley still has things to learn but he has certainly shown more improvement than Kevin Penny in a similar timescale. I`m not knocking Penny as its giving an opinion based on what we have seen of him, i hope he goes on to be a Warrington great but i can`t see it based on what ive seen so far.

Kevin Penny reminds me a lot of Paul White and to some extent Richie Barnett, all 3 of these had one thing in common which was blistering pace but all 3 of them looked like should have been wearing L plates whilst on a rugby league pitch as none of them have looked natural rugby league players. Both Paul White and Richie Barnet found their level at Salford before Barnett was given a 2 year ban for failing a drug test.

Riley is much further on in his RL development than Penny, the fact he only touched a ball at 14/15 whatever he was, proves this.

In terms of Penny & Riley, I'm not sure our current set up, or the last one is the best to judge them on. They've come in, as rookies, into the worst defensive side in SL, or if not the worst, the wost of the supposed 'bigger sides' anyhow. If your learning your trade, in a setup which is offensively orientated, as ours has been/is now, it makes sense that the only areas of your game that are likely to improve is that. In a defensively mided environment, with better role models, it'd be different. We don't have one single back, who's decent defensively, Gleeson is probably our best, and teams get at him.

You put Kev Penny at Saints or Leeds tomorrow, i'll bet he'll look quality. Look at how that Watkins has slotted in pretty impressively.

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:23 pm  

JWP wrote:

Riley is much further on in his RL development than Penny, the fact he only touched a ball at 14/15 whatever he was, proves this.

In terms of Penny & Riley, I'm not sure our current set up, or the last one is the best to judge them on. They've come in, as rookies, into the worst defensive side in SL, or if not the worst, the wost of the supposed 'bigger sides' anyhow. If your learning your trade, in a setup which is offensively orientated, as ours has been/is now, it makes sense that the only areas of your game that are likely to improve is that. In a defensively mided environment, with better role models, it'd be different. We don't have one single back, who's decent defensively, Gleeson is probably our best, and teams get at him.

You put Kev Penny at Saints or Leeds tomorrow, i'll bet he'll look quality. Look at how that Watkins has slotted in pretty impressively.

They have a coach who'd play to his strengths, I'm quite sure. We have one of the best attacking wingers in the league and don't utilise plays to suit him.

[BOBBIE_IS_SUPERMAN]

: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:35 pm  

the flying biscuit wrote:

you're not really a coach are you Bobbie....I bet you're not even called Bobbie

I think its best explained in Pictures:

Ive moved Kevin Penny to where you want him..(well almost, as Gardners right on the touchline already)

do i have to explain what the big red thing is...

You still dont understand what im trying to say.

If Penny was there where you have placed him on the picture. Matt King could still tackle the saints centre and Kev Penny has a better Chance of stopping Gardner one on one.

The 10 metre gap shouldnt be there.. but is irrelevant