Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:09 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

you were wrong then and you're wrong now, last season not withstanding

The evidence suggests otherwise.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:12 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

You appear to be blissfully unaware that you are forwarding an argument where you state that you know better which side he prefers to play on than the player himself. You put forward an argument that attempted to pin point his move to left centre as to the drop in form. Despite the fact he was given his lucrative contract whilst playing left centre. I feel this discussion has reached the end. Most sensible people would accept that, on balance, the player probably knows himself which his preferred side.

For the avoidance of doubt I made no point in relation to Wardle, or Powell, or highlight reels in my statement, that's just noise you belatedly drew into your ever weakening argument.

Players say things, doesn’t mean they are true if it suits the moment.

Powell saying Wardle could be retained…he couldn’t.

Smithies saying it’s just rumours he’s going to NRL, it isn’t.

Cooper and King being the issue at Wire…they weren’t.

Interesting what an agenda can influence.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:17 pm  

jonh wrote:

Players say things, doesn’t mean they are true if it suits the moment.

Powell saying Wardle could be retained…he couldn’t.

Smithies saying it’s just rumours he’s going to NRL, it isn’t.

Cooper and King being the issue at Wire…they weren’t.

Interesting what an agenda can influence.

So your argument has developed on to King being purposefully deceitful in the Warrington Guardian article now to suit an, as yet, undisclosed hidden agenda?

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:24 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

So your argument has developed on to King being purposefully deceitful in the Warrington Guardian article now to suit an, as yet, undisclosed hidden agenda?

Deceitful or just going with the narrative as he had been moved to the left.

Scored more tries, assisted more tries and got an England Knights call in 2019 on the right. Got another England full call in 2023.

Played in World Cup for Ireland on the right.

In fact his stats were also better in 2018 than they were in 2020.

His stats are back up to those levels in 2023, must be a coincidence he is back on the right.

Definitely a left centre……

The reason he shifted I’m guessing was to accommodate Gelling who was a right side secondrow who transitioned to centre and was even more dominant right edge than King.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:55 pm  

In conclusion he's bog average on one side of the field and, at best, slightly above average on t'other.

I've nothing against King, he does a job but that job for me is not what I wistfully want from a centre.....still he brings the ball away from the line strongly, I'll look forward to watching that in awe next season.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:57 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

OK I don't agree with the "superb" adjective. If we are going into stats he still misses a lot of tackles 46/362 and I have never been convinced of his defensive reads or positioning. But that's all fine we can disagree. If I could have the choice I would much prefer Wardle.

In isolation that’s not great reading, 12.7% miss rate. But, compared to other centres, it’s actually impressive: Wardle does better at 10.65%, Lafai similar at 12.55%. If you then look at Keighran 25.5%, Newman 22.79%, Kenny Dowall 21.96, Marsters 24.13%, Percival 21.07% he’s head and shoulders clear.

The choice of Wardle vs King is gone. We had both in the palm of our hands and we completely messed it up to the absolute maximum effect. They both went on to win the league in the exact same year where we have had the least attacking threat in the centres since Roper and Eagar.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:27 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

..still he brings the ball away from the line strongly, I'll look forward to watching that in awe next season.

The ability of Wigans centres and wingers to carry the ball out of our own half is one of the key attributes as to why we have had a successful season.

King contribution may not thrill you but it goes a long way towards helping you win games.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:37 pm  

Oh I agree and it's just a damning of indictment of where we are as a game over here.

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:43 pm  

jonh wrote:

Look at his form right to left.

He’s a right centre.

I watched him as a junior enough to know that before his move to the pro game.

Look at his highlights reel and tell me where his best form is. Done to death when you lot were telling me he was terrible pick up for Wigan when he signed…whilst also telling me Wigan hadn’t signed Wardle before he joined Wire and you might be able to retain him…which he had and you couldn’t despite what Powell was saying.

Go find the thread. Not going through it all again.

This seems a bizarre argument, his best form for Warrington came as a left sided centre in 2021 from which he got his latest contract, you can google Toby King 2021 and see a lovely highlight reel of him playing as a left sided centre, no international recognition that year - given there was no international RL. His form dropped in 2022 for other reasons, maybe some complacency after signing a new deal, more likely how he perceived he was being treated by Powell but certainly not from playing on the left, given he was 2 & 1/2 years in at that point and he's stated he played there for the academy and was his favoured side.

He clearly is a good centre on either side of the field and is far better than any centre we had in 2023. He's had plenty of time at left and right centre, but that isn't the point you are arguing, you are saying his form dipped when we moved him to the left, which is untrue, he had a good 2020 and a very good 2021....

Had he been on a wage relative to his quality I would be delighted to have him back, unfortunately we overpaid which means we are tied to having him as a marquee, for that reason I don't think he is value for money - irrespective of me thinking he is a good player.

I asked earlier, would you have him back at Wigan on marquee wages, so having to drop one of your higher paid players to accommodate him, French or Field for example?

Re: Centres : Tue Oct 17, 2023 1:48 pm  

jonh wrote:

Cooper and King being the issue at Wire…they weren’t.

Of course they were an issue. If you're disrespecting the coach then you're obviously an issue.