: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:06 pm  

saintc wrote:

Bit naive to look at it that way given that we have knocked top teams out of it. Off the top of my head we have done Leeds a few times, Bradford when they were actually good (and at Odsal), Hull as well as a few games V Wigan, Wire and other sides that arent foregone conclusions.

I think WOTT's point was in reference to RL Lover who claimed that the GF isn't as important as it is down to a one off game on the day, just like the CC Final.

As you say, Saints have done well to get to these CC Finals to be in a position to win, but no equally, Leeds have done well to get to a position to be at Old Trafford.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:15 pm  

RL Lover wrote:

Believe it or not Seb if you look back earlier in this thread there were a couple of jokers trying to argue the fact that Saints have dominated the game for the last 10 years.

I kid you not

I wouldn't describe Saints as dominant in the last 10 years. They have been a major force, but surely a dominant team would have won more than 1 SL Title in the past 6 years?

They may have finished top for the past few years, however I'm sue they would swap that League Leaders shield with the SL Trophy anyday.

Saints are a major force, as are Leeds, but the only dominant team over a sustained period I have ever seen is Wigan.

: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:49 pm  

saintc wrote:

I dissagree. There was never a big 4 anyway. There was a period when it was Saints or Bradford winning everything with the odd interuption with a Wigan / Leeds trophy. Now it is Saints and Leeds winning everything and the odd interuption from Hull and Bradford in 05.

Exactly, never has been a big 4 in the SL era. It was the big two for quite a few years in Saints and Bradford, and now it's become Saints and Leeds.

: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:14 am  

Dave T wrote:

I think WOTT's point was in reference to RL Lover who claimed that the GF isn't as important as it is down to a one off game on the day, just like the CC Final.

As you say, Saints have done well to get to these CC Finals to be in a position to win, but no equally, Leeds have done well to get to a position to be at Old Trafford.

Pretty much chief.

: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:17 pm  

Dave T wrote:

I wouldn't describe Saints as dominant in the last 10 years. .

Depends what you call dominant.

Our nearest rivals trophywise is Bradford who have won half of what we have over the SL era. Next after that is Leeds who have won 1/3rd of what we have won. If you compile what Leeds, Wigan and Bradford have won over this era it still isnt as much as us. Thats fairly dominant, even if its nowhere near what Wigan did.

: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:32 pm  

SL Era:

SL Winners
St Helens 5
Bradford 4
Leeds 3
Wigan 1

League Leaders Winners
St Helens 5
Bradford 3
Wigan 2
Leeds 1

Challenge Cup Winners
St Helens 7
Bradford 2
Leeds 1
Wigan 1
Hull FC 1
Sheffield 1

World Club Challenge Winners
Bradford 3
St Helens 2
Leeds 2

Totals
St Helens 19
Bradford 12
Leeds 7
Wigan 4
Hull FC 1
Sheffield 1


Saints look pretty dominant to me!

Re: Is the Big Four Thing Now Dead? : Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:21 pm  

MikeyWire wrote:

Other clubs have threatened to break the big Four ourselves and Hull to name two....

: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:49 pm  

Its never really been a big 4 in all honesty. That sentiment was a stupid Eddie and Stevo made up load of BS.

Its been Saints and either Bradford or Leeds as the dominant sides. At present we have a situation where Saints and Leeds are well ahead whilst the rest are pretty poor. As time progresses with the lack of relegation I'd expect all the sides to start to even out but it will take time.

FWIW I genuinely think its only poor management in terms of recruitment of both players and coaches which has held back the likes of Wire and Wigan. If they can get some long term planning in place then I'd expect both to get up there quicker than the rest.

: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:12 pm  

SEB wrote:

Totals
St Helens 19
Bradford 12
Leeds 7
Wigan 4
Hull FC 1
Sheffield 1


Saints look pretty dominant to me!

To be fair, RL Lover claimed Saints had been dominant in the last 10 years.

Now they still have a very good record and indeed have won most trophies in that spell, but surely a team that was dominant would have won more than 1 SL title in the last 6 years wouldn't they?

They have dominated the Challenge Cup, however 1 SL Title in the last 6 years says to me that they have been a major force rather than dominant.

: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:04 pm  

Dave T wrote:

To be fair, RL Lover claimed Saints had been dominant in the last 10 years.

Now they still have a very good record and indeed have won most trophies in that spell, but surely a team that was dominant would have won more than 1 SL title in the last 6 years wouldn't they?

They have dominated the Challenge Cup, however 1 SL Title in the last 6 years says to me that they have been a major force rather than dominant.

When you look at the SL title in isolation it does appear that Saints have not been dominant. However, you need to take into account that Saints have topped the table for the last four years and won the CC for the last three.

It would be unfair to judge Saints as not dominant because they lost two SL finals against the better team on the day and failed to reach the SL final the year before because of a well-documented injury crisis (thanks Newton)! On those three occasions, you could argue that the best team in SL did not win the SL title - such is the nature of the competition - just as in 2002, Bradford were the best team in the comp but did not win the SL title.