Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:39 pm  

Paul Youane wrote:

How many subscribers has Wigan TV got? I've never seen a figure quoted.

Wigan have seen to lost quite a bit of money on this venture to date, it is a completely unsustainable venture for a rugby league club to offer with any sort of quality.

As I originally posted, Leigh Centurions TV has made a healthy profit. A cheque for £10,000 was handed over eight months after the service was introduced.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:43 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

Wire and Pies have more or less had an equal share in the spoils regarding silverware over the last 5 years and you could separate them in the top of league positioning with a credit card....

Yet the Pies RL have Wigan Rugby TV, a smaller town population with higher unemployment, a Premiership/Championship football team in competition....
but yet can on some weeks Pies can double the home attendance of what Wire can get at the HJ.

With that in mind I figure it's something else that is holding back our attendance that is far more significant than the small amount of fans we will lose from the ground with Wire TV!

More silverware in the last 50 years.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:56 pm  

There was no Pie tv 50 years ago and they were still doubling our attendances when they cheated themselves out of relegation a few years back.
And during the last season 50 years ago exactly, Warrington had the highest attendances ever seen in World team sport of any kind. Way way ahead of the Pies....so we have let up somewhere.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:21 am  

rubber duckie wrote:

There was no Pie tv 50 years ago and they were still doubling our attendances when they cheated themselves out of relegation a few years back.
And during the last season 50 years ago exactly, Warrington had the highest attendances ever seen in World team sport of any kind. Way way ahead of the Pies....so we have let up somewhere.

I think you miss Vespid's point. Though Wigan had a slightly dodgy period late 70s to mid 80s, other that from the 1950s onwards they have been for over fifty years consistently the most successful side overall in RL. That builds a 'dynastic' feel about the club which stimulates support passing on through the generations and building as time goes on. Wire have won plenty of silverware, but generally scattered in little four-five years bursts with fallow periods in between, so providing potential fans with lots of good reasons to lapse, or never to get interested at all. Another factor has to be Warrington's 70s/80s 'New Town' status , which brought valuable new development to the area, including housing and business, but the side effect was a growing population with no historic allegiance to the town, or even to Rugby League. I've lived away from Warrington since 1976, and I have been in many a Warrington taxi since with a driver who either doesn't know or doesn't care about the town's rugby team. It will take a good ten-fifteen years of consistent success ( a trophy every couple of years, always in the top four-five of the league ) before the 21st Century Wire can start to have this type of momentum.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:27 am  

^ Exactly what I meant but said far better than I could've done, cheers!

Look at how our attendance peaked in 2012 when we were winning trophies. 2 years without a trophy and the fair weather fans have left again.

If we win a trophy this year, they'll be back next year. It's annoying but it's true!

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:59 am  

You both missed my point.
Pies were packing them in at the JJB when they was a drought in silverware and they bottom of the league, while we however was fairing very much better.

Of course consistancy and or success breeds growth but we have stumbled in the last 4 seasons. It says to me that something isn't quite right when attendance drops, but what is for sure, it is Wolves TV that is responsible for it.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:16 am  

Paul Youane wrote:

How many subscribers has Wigan TV got? I've never seen a figure quoted.

Wigan have seen to lost quite a bit of money on this venture to date, it is a completely unsustainable venture for a rugby league club to offer with any sort of quality.

I don't know, but how do you know it's losing money if you don't know either, or the costs involved?

I do know a few people in Australia who use the service, plus about 50% of our group who regularly go to matches.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:31 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: I don't know, but how do you know it's losing money if you don't know either, or the costs involved? Based upon the content's of the strategic report contained in Wigan's annual accounts for the last three years (eg since to start of Wigan tv). In 2012 - "The directors do not expect the 2012 year to be profitable as the company ..... develops its new TV OnLine revenue opportunities." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... continues/ In 2013 - "The directors expect the year ahead to be a challenging one in tough economic conditions and with increased operating costs arising from the ......... setting up Wigan TV." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... fits-slip/ In 2014 - "The directors do not expect the 2014 year to be profitable due to the clubs(sic) increasing commitment to expand its online TV opportunity." Now admittedly despite the above warnings Wigan did manage to turn in a profit of £27,800 and £108,234 in 2012 and 2013 respectively although I'd personally attribute this to the £1m plus in transfer fees received as revenue in the accounts over that period rather than the Wigan TV subscriptions paid by your half dozen mates and a handful of ex-pats in Aus. An on-line tv service amounting to anything more/better than a hospital radio'esque volunteer backed option is un-sustainable for any club in a minority sport like rugby league. I can't help but think Wigan TV is little more than a vanity driven money pit, the only difference a Warrington version would have is that we would create even less revenue and therefore the money pit would be even bigger.

Rogues Gallery wrote: I don't know, but how do you know it's losing money if you don't know either, or the costs involved? Based upon the content's of the strategic report contained in Wigan's annual accounts for the last three years (eg since to start of Wigan tv). In 2012 - "The directors do not expect the 2012 year to be profitable as the company ..... develops its new TV OnLine revenue opportunities." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... continues/ In 2013 - "The directors expect the year ahead to be a challenging one in tough economic conditions and with increased operating costs arising from the ......... setting up Wigan TV." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... fits-slip/ In 2014 - "The directors do not expect the 2014 year to be profitable due to the clubs(sic) increasing commitment to expand its online TV opportunity." Now admittedly despite the above warnings Wigan did manage to turn in a profit of £27,800 and £108,234 in 2012 and 2013 respectively although I'd personally attribute this to the £1m plus in transfer fees received as revenue in the accounts over that period rather than the Wigan TV subscriptions paid by your half dozen mates and a handful of ex-pats in Aus. An on-line tv service amounting to anything more/better than a hospital radio'esque volunteer backed option is un-sustainable for any club in a minority sport like rugby league. I can't help but think Wigan TV is little more than a vanity driven money pit, the only difference a Warrington version would have is that we would create even less revenue and therefore the money pit would be even bigger.

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:54 pm  

Paul Youane wrote: Based upon the content's of the strategic report contained in Wigan's annual accounts for the last three years (eg since to start of Wigan tv). In 2012 - "The directors do not expect the 2012 year to be profitable as the company ..... develops its new TV OnLine revenue opportunities." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... continues/ In 2013 - "The directors expect the year ahead to be a challenging one in tough economic conditions and with increased operating costs arising from the ......... setting up Wigan TV." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... fits-slip/ In 2014 - "The directors do not expect the 2014 year to be profitable due to the clubs(sic) increasing commitment to expand its online TV opportunity." Now admittedly despite the above warnings Wigan did manage to turn in a profit of £27,800 and £108,234 in 2012 and 2013 respectively although I'd personally attribute this to the £1m plus in transfer fees received as revenue in the accounts over that period rather than the Wigan TV subscriptions paid by your half dozen mates and a handful of ex-pats in Aus. An on-line tv service amounting to anything more/better than a hospital radio'esque volunteer backed option is un-sustainable for any club in a minority sport like rugby league. I can't help but think Wigan TV is little more than a vanity driven money pit, the only difference a Warrington version would have is that we would create even less revenue and therefore the money pit would be even bigger. Hi. Out of interest, did you see my post last night about Leigh Centurions TV?

Paul Youane wrote: Based upon the content's of the strategic report contained in Wigan's annual accounts for the last three years (eg since to start of Wigan tv). In 2012 - "The directors do not expect the 2012 year to be profitable as the company ..... develops its new TV OnLine revenue opportunities." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... continues/ In 2013 - "The directors expect the year ahead to be a challenging one in tough economic conditions and with increased operating costs arising from the ......... setting up Wigan TV." http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/nor ... fits-slip/ In 2014 - "The directors do not expect the 2014 year to be profitable due to the clubs(sic) increasing commitment to expand its online TV opportunity." Now admittedly despite the above warnings Wigan did manage to turn in a profit of £27,800 and £108,234 in 2012 and 2013 respectively although I'd personally attribute this to the £1m plus in transfer fees received as revenue in the accounts over that period rather than the Wigan TV subscriptions paid by your half dozen mates and a handful of ex-pats in Aus. An on-line tv service amounting to anything more/better than a hospital radio'esque volunteer backed option is un-sustainable for any club in a minority sport like rugby league. I can't help but think Wigan TV is little more than a vanity driven money pit, the only difference a Warrington version would have is that we would create even less revenue and therefore the money pit would be even bigger. Hi. Out of interest, did you see my post last night about Leigh Centurions TV?

Re: Wolves TV anyone? : Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:40 pm  

Ganson's Optician wrote:

Hi. Out of interest, did you see my post last night about Leigh Centurions TV?

Yeah, Centurions tv falls under the hospital radio category for me. It doesn't as far as I can see do live games, it shows old games and interviews with players etc, which Warrington give you for free on their website. It would seem to rely upon the goodwill of volunteers to staff it and generous donations of equipment to facilitate it. The money you referred to is revenue, admittedly impressive for Leigh, and not profit of running it if you off-set the value of gifts and volunteer's time. It will be interesting to see how the revenue and service maintains when the volunteers initial enthusiasm wanes, without their goodwill it is not sustainable.