: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:06 pm  

The All New Chester Wire wrote:

What advantage would come from leaving the EU?

There is a big misconception with UKIP that they want to alienate us completely but the fact is
UKIP want to trade with Europe and be a part of Europe but they DON'T want to be governed/answerable to Europe
that's it
they are more than a one policy party but people don't want to see it.

Check out Nigel Farage on the well known video site

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:06 pm  

The All New Chester Wire wrote:

The cynicism in this thread saddens me, but doesn't surprise me. I do not think that most MPs are involved for personal gain. Some are, but I think the vast majority are committed to making the country/world a better place and think that their party will be the one to do it.

I will vote Labour. I always have and whilst I may not like some aspects of current Labour Party policy, I know that their general world view is close to mine.

I would never not vote.

However not voting as a conscious choice is just as valid.

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:09 pm  

getdownmonkeyman wrote:

Xenophobia?

No not xenophobic at all. It's about financial sense. My wife is half polish FFS im all for the people just not the governance.

I actually am a firm believer in a Meritocracy but being a realist will never see it

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:11 pm  

Ian [77] wrote:

I agree, we should vote. It's a bit corny but people ran at machine guns so we could have the freedom to do this stuff. The least we can do is get off our fat lazy arses and vote.

If you are referring to WWI or WWII that is about a considered and in-depth comparison with saying that we assisted in the invasion of Iraq to bring about democracy and human rights without putting into context the whole issue of energy resources, battle of western vs middle eastern ideologies and culture. History provides a convenient air brush at times.

(PS You are aware that the vast majority of British WWI servicemen were conscripted aren't you?)

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:14 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

I understand your point and I lay the blame quite squarely at the door of the New Labour concept and it's spin, deception and duplicity in causing this air of malcontent and cynicism in regard to modern day politics. Not only did they blatantly lie to the general public in committing our forces into an unnecessary conflict but they turned their back on mainstream Labour principles introducing the need for students to pay for higher education, the use of PFI in core health care delivery and preparing to privatise the Royal Mail to name just a few. Real Labour supporters must be totally disenfranchised. Say what you like about Maggie but she was true to her convictions and political doctrine to the end, Cameron will prove to be same when this sick dog of a Government is finally put out of its misery in 2010/2011.

I may be misinterpreting your words, but are you suggesting the Tories are the party of transparency and non-self interst? I know '97 was a long time ago, but I am sure you can recall the cash for questions and general sleaze which made Labour's journey to Nr 10 rather easy.

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:15 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

I understand your point and I lay the blame quite squarely at the door of the New Labour concept and it's spin, deception and duplicity in causing this air of malcontent and cynicism in regard to modern day politics.

Whereas Bernard Ingham was the epitome of straight talking and no spin.

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:15 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

If you are referring to WWI or WWII that is about a considered and in-depth comparison with saying that we assisted in the invasion of Iraq to bring about democracy and human rights without putting into context the whole issue of energy resources, battle of western vs middle eastern ideologies and culture. History provides a convenient air brush at times.

(PS You are aware that the vast majority of British WWI servicemen were conscripted aren't you?)

I was referring to the 2nd World War. I was under the impression that it was about fighting Nazi Germany and that, in some way, it was linked to protecting democracy. On that very simple level, people did sort of die so we can do things like vote. That may be a simplistic view but occasionally the devil isn't in the detail.

I wasn't aware that the vast majority of British WWI servicemen were conscripted. Not convinced of its relevance but interesting nonetheless.

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:17 pm  

mark_m wrote:

However not voting as a conscious choice is just as valid.

Tell those black people who queued for hours in South Africa in 1994. (I do sort of accept your point, although I am not sure it is really a valid action in an advanced democracy unless you are going to accept that you then have no right to complain about anything.)

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:18 pm  

Wire_Yed_79 wrote:

No not xenophobic at all. It's about financial sense. My wife is half polish FFS im all for the people just not the governance.

I actually am a firm believer in a Meritocracy but being a realist will never see it

Do Nigel Farage and UKIP want to retain the free movement of people then?

: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:19 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

If you are referring to WWI or WWII that is about a considered and in-depth comparison with saying that we assisted in the invasion of Iraq to bring about democracy and human rights without putting into context the whole issue of energy resources, battle of western vs middle eastern ideologies and culture. History provides a convenient air brush at times.

(PS You are aware that the vast majority of British WWI servicemen were conscripted aren't you?)

Across the world people HAVE died for the right to vote.